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Author | Topic: God caused or uncaused? | |||||||||||||||||||
Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5879 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
sidelined
Is there a logical reason why God exists? There must be, but since logic is infinite, we cannot have absolute comprehensive understanding of Him. So we either choose to trust Him, or not.
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5879 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
mark24:
My great-grandmother lived until she was 93, she smoked cigarettes like a trooper all her life. She lived well beyond the average life expectancy. Smoking is therefore good for you. There you have & internal & external test cohere, it is valid logic, & it is also wrong. Your point? That doesn't tell you how long she would have lived without smoking...
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5879 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Ringo:
You still can't use logic to connect what is observable with what is unobservable. There is no possibility of coherence there. I'm talking about logic itself Ringo... Can you not see HIm?
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5879 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
sidlined:
Then Logic is greater than, not the same as, God. No, it's just who God is. Good and complete. Love, harmony, order... coherence. Can logic be greater than logic? Is the Father greater than the Son? Edited by Rob, : No reason given.
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5879 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
jar:
Who cares? In this issue it is irrelevant and unimportant. That remains to be seen. We're having a conversation. This is not a dictatorship. Please answer the question:
Is logic valid when it matches the external and internal test and is formed into a composite whole?
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5879 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Ringo:
Nobody can see Him. If people think they see evidence of Him in the physical world, that evidence can fit into their coherent philosophy package. But there can never be a coherent connection to Him. Nobody can see logic? Then could Einstien see that E=MC2 (what is the code for that little square 2)
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5879 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
mark24:
That's neither here nor there, that she lived well beyond the average life expectancy is an observation, the inferrred conclusion is that it was the smoking that did it & that smoking is therefore good for you. So what about her neighbor who lived beyond the average life expectancy and didn't smoke? Kind of a small sample size isn't it? mark24: Logical coherence doesn't have to = truth. Sorry, but it doesn't. Yes it does. Otherwise there is no truth for us to believe in like the TOE. But there is other information that we are unaware of, to resolve the difficulties of certain cases (ie. your grandmothers genetic predisposition as well as other enviromental factors).
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5879 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Yes or no.
Is logic valid when it matches the external and internal test and is formed into a composite whole? ie. is science valid?
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5879 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Sidelined:
You agreed in #207 that there must be a logical reason for God. Logic then must then restrain God in his actions therefore is greater than God. Are yo saying that logic is self control?
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5879 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Ringo:
I said nobody can see Him, i.e. God. Your notion that God = logic is not a given here. Well you flew right over my point then... without discussing it. If logic is not God, then why do you presume the scientific method to be our only salvation? The whole venture of science is only valid if the notions (as you put it) are legitimate. We certainly have faith that they are...
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5879 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
The irony and mysteriousness of the fact that there are four or five guys here, using logic to deny or question logic is almost too much for me to handle.
Do we have faith in it or not? Oh the joy of it all.
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5879 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
mark24:
Any logically valid syllogism can be wrong as demontrated by new evidence. Like the TOE? mark24: This is why science never caims to have the ultimate truth, it always allows for something to be wrong. Because it is logical?
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5879 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Ringo:
The whole venture of science - which deals with the physical world - is valid only if the notions about the physical world are valid. Notions about the non-physical world (if any) are not relevant - i.e. do not cohere. But the notions themselves are the non physical world. And it is those notions (laws) that bind the physical world together. Without the laws and forces (non-physical) the phisical world would not stay together. But it does stand firm as a result of the non physical laws that sustain it.
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5879 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Ringo:
The scientific method is our best way of understanding the physical world. Logic is a tool of that method. Logic is that method. Take logic out of that equation and what do you have? The TOE...
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5879 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
jar:
The difference, and a significant one, is that science then runs tests and experiments to attempt to verify conclusions. It does NOT rely on axioms that are assumed to be true. So what is science testing for if not logical coherence? And are they not assuming that logical consistency (though sometimes wrong due to lack of information) is axiomatic and our only tool to shed light on reality?
Yes or no. Is logic valid when it matches the external and internal test and is formed into a composite whole? ie. is science valid? Edited by Rob, : No reason given.
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