Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,913 Year: 4,170/9,624 Month: 1,041/974 Week: 368/286 Day: 11/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   How Literal is Genesis
pbee
Member (Idle past 6058 days)
Posts: 339
Joined: 06-20-2007


Message 40 of 47 (413238)
07-30-2007 12:22 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Pete OS
04-27-2007 9:23 PM


I find your topic very good, however, there is no way to cover, even half of your questions properly within the scope of this thread. So with that in mind, I will limit my response to the beginning.
First off, if you are seeking to scrutinize the creation account with a bible such as the KJV you are going to fall flat on your face. Not because the bible is bad(per say) but rather because of the nature of transcriptions and literary translations. The KJV suffers from some would call timeframe translation issues. In the older Greek and Hebraic texts the implications and weight of the creation account is vastly different from the English translations we have today. Why? because biblical translators had to interpret the meaning of the scriptures in order to communicate the context given from the older writings. This meant that we are in many ways, limited to the translators ability to understanding the meaning of the texts.
The issue for me was that the Creation account simply didn't jive with things. It doesn't take a scientist or a scholar to see that the KJV creation account requires a little contortion in order to pan out with the evidence at hand. However, I was very pleased to hear that the older writings seemed in very good standing with the current state of science on our surroundings.
Since God would transcend time and space, I is not at all surprising to conclude that the earth is old. The universe most likely older since it would seem as though everything is expanding from a single point. I believe that when God said, he created man from earth, that this implied that we came to be what we are today as a result of his will. This would include that out of all the living creatures of the earth, that we are the absolute physical beings above all the living things.
I often ponder whether or not A&E were indeed as we are today. I would think not. How different they would of been from us remains a mystery, however if I had to guess, I would say they were probably completely incompatible with us now. When I think back at the command that God gave Adam and Eve, I can never come to terms with how powerful they would have become here on earth. He essentially told them, do anything you want(make your own world) just don't betray me. He then told them, fill the earth and master it. That command alone, says it all. God was in no way limiting the capacity that mankind would hold as humans. Adam and Eve would have become the parents and recognized authority of all the inhabited earth. They would have been great and likely example of Gods greatness.
There is no mention of other beings other than angels and God while Adam and Eve were in the garden. It is unknown to this day whether they had any offspring prior to there disobedience act. However, had they of had offspring, those children would not of been condemned unless they too would of eaten of the fruit which I believe the account would of mentioned.
I have always considered the Cain and Able account to be literal. As for the soul, The scriptures refer to living creatures as souls which would indicate that Adam respectively had a soul since he was declared alive. I have always concluded that all living people are likewise living souls.
Of all the information recorded in the bible, I never doubted the fall of man. The entire account is far to implicative to discount as anything but literal under the terms.
PS. I have no particular stake against the KJV bibles. I used it as an example since it is a very common and seemingly most used bible when it comes to reading and reference.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Pete OS, posted 04-27-2007 9:23 PM Pete OS has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by arachnophilia, posted 07-30-2007 11:02 PM pbee has not replied

  
pbee
Member (Idle past 6058 days)
Posts: 339
Joined: 06-20-2007


Message 44 of 47 (413753)
08-01-2007 8:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Pete OS
04-27-2007 9:23 PM


quote:
I know Dr. Meyers at Institute of Bible and Science suggests that the Hebrew is a translation of a mistranslation of another language where one little jot or tittle changes the number by a factor of ten, and if you decrease by a factor of ten you have very realistic ages for childbearing and death. I am not yet comfortable with this explanation though.
Let us consider an individual called Mahalalel. The Bible records mention that Mahalalel lived on for sixty-five years. Then he became father to Jared and so on and so forth. ” "All the days of Mahalalel amounted to eight hundred and ninety-five years and he died.” If we used Dr. Meyers approach Mahalalel would have fathered his son at an impossible age! Based on the information given, It would seem as though people of that time lived closer to the perfect vitality of the first human pair.
Edited by pbee, : Paragraph error

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Pete OS, posted 04-27-2007 9:23 PM Pete OS has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by PaulK, posted 08-01-2007 9:10 AM pbee has not replied

  
pbee
Member (Idle past 6058 days)
Posts: 339
Joined: 06-20-2007


Message 46 of 47 (413761)
08-01-2007 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Pete OS
04-27-2007 9:23 PM


quote:
Was Adam ever a real person? If he did exist, how many others were alive at the same time? Did someone named Cain ever kill someone named Abel? Was Adam the first man with a soul? Did all his contemporaries have souls? Was there a fall? Is the entire story just made up?
While the Genesis account of Adam and Eve does come across as simple. It does convey that God created Adam out of the elements of the earth and then proceeded “to blow into his nostrils the breath of life.” Later, with a part of man’s body as a basis, a woman was created, whom the man could appropriately describe as “bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh.
Now, if something adheres to facts it need not be complicated to be true. And many scientists admit that the Genesis claim that all humans had a single source, not several, seems indeed factual.
Of course not everyone will accept the Genesis account. A bible commentary written several years had also proposed alternate views to the Genesis account saying; “Whether the first human appeared at the end of a certain evolutionary process or was just one or a group, Genesis gives no definite answer.” Additionally, likewise some believe that Adam and Eve might be symbols for primordial mankind rather than the first human beings.
For the sake of argument, let us say that Adam and Eve were not real persons. How, then, would Bible references to them be understood? A rejection of the Adam-and-Eve account in Genesis starts a chain reaction that ends up in almost total rejection of everything the Bible teaches. But rejecting the Bible leaves us with some rather puzzling issues though.
Let us look at the case of badness and suffering for example. - The Genesis account states that Adam and Eve were given a commission. "To populate and cultivate the earth and to lovingly care for all things on it." Along with this, they were presented with a divine rule. "To remain in subjection to God." Obedience to His instructions would of been absolutely necessary for Adam and Eve to maintain perfect harmony with the order of things.
But Adam and Eve chose to do things their own way, ignoring God and his instructions. The resulted of there disobedience was death through sin, and thus death spread to all of there offspring because they were products of the first pair.” So, according to the Bible, the basic reason why people do bad things is through the inherited sin of our first parents, Adam and Eve.
Now, assuming that we do not accept the Bible account of Adam and Eve as factual, how then can we explain why people, despite the fact that they all want peace and happiness, continue to do bad things?
Why do we get sick and die? why God permits wickedness? Is there hope for the future? - The Genesis account provides us with a great wealth of information regarding the greater questions. And to this I say, it definately an account worthy of it's claims.
Edited by pbee, : typos and formatting.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Pete OS, posted 04-27-2007 9:23 PM Pete OS has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024