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Author Topic:   the rocks speak
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 5 of 59 (39752)
05-11-2003 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by mike the wiz
05-11-2003 4:20 PM


he was saying something about their incredible complexity, the six gun orchid , which is incredible , it shoots the bee and then it will go off to another plant and stick to it and pollenate it , anyway i've forgot this scientists name but i must say his arguements were very convincing
I too find the diversity of life on earth, with countless methods of survival, protection, and behavior, incredible in its ingenuity and variety.
But I don't find complexity to be a compelling argument for design. Complexity has been proven to arise through purely mechanistic means. Furthermore, designers tend to design not towards variety and complexity but rather uniformity and simplicity. If life is designed then it is by a just-barely competent designer. That's my view, anyway.
Darwin could be wrong about orchids and still have a valid theory. I'm not impressed by attempts to discredit a 19th-century scientist by pointing out things that he couldn't have known at the time.
Science moves forward and sometimes leaves even great men behind. But some theories stand the test of time and the theory of evolution, so far, is one of them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by mike the wiz, posted 05-11-2003 4:20 PM mike the wiz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by nator, posted 05-12-2003 8:58 AM crashfrog has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 10 of 59 (39840)
05-12-2003 7:39 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by nator
05-12-2003 8:58 AM


...or women.
Can I claim I meant "men" in the neutral sense? Probably not...
Sadly, great women being left behind in the sciences would seem to the the rule for most of science's history... Even to this day efforts to restore female luminaries to their proper place of respect occasionally meet opposition from those who fear that lifting up a woman means pushing down a man...

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 Message 11 by mike the wiz, posted 05-12-2003 9:15 PM crashfrog has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 35 of 59 (40102)
05-14-2003 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Fencer
05-14-2003 8:19 AM


Honestly, you can't be serious with this question, or if you are serious, you must be 10 years old or purposely acting like one.
If you won't believe John doesn't know, believe I don't know. Humor me. What's the difference? At least give an example of organic matter vs. inorganic matter, preferably of similar elemental composition.
I mean, consider this: Is limestone inorganic matter? It's stone, right? But my bones are made of calcium, too. Are my bones inorganic matter? I would argue they're organic.
When I was in chemistry class, the difference between organic and inorganic chemicals had to do with the presence or absence of carbon. In that situation inorganic molecules could become organic through simple chemical reactions. Your definition seems to be at odds with chemistry. I'd like you to address that.
there are many accredited universities around the world, and it is hardly a testament to the persuasive power of the evolution argument that so many universities fail at indoctrinating 100% of its graduates.
Well, unfortunately, when they give you the degree that's no indication you've learned anything.
Some of us see a difference b/n organic matter and inorganic matter.
..where none exists, in the view of chemists. Educated people believe all kinds of things.
Unlike you, I don't measure truth by counting the majority beliefs of scientists.
Then why did you bring up numbers?
The only difference between organic and inorganic matter is where it is found. Organic matter is found in organisms. Inorganic is not. The chemical properties of both are identical. Or perhaps you'd care to explain, using your model of the unbridgable gap between organic and inorganic, chemosynthetic bacteria at sea floor vents? Or bacteria able to digest nylon?

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 50 of 59 (40317)
05-15-2003 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Fencer
05-15-2003 4:55 PM


However, please be on notice that it is in my ability to evolve into a jackass.
I don't know how it is where you're from, but where I'm from, we warn people of things before they happen.
A number of us have raised very substantial question to a number of your supporting points; in particular, people want to know why you feel there is an unbridgable gap between "organic" and "inorganic" molecules, in the face of evidence to the contrary - for instance, the synthesis of urea (an organic compound) from mineral chemicals.
Do you have a cogent response, or can we assume your only purpose here is to troll?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Fencer, posted 05-15-2003 4:55 PM Fencer has not replied

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