Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,914 Year: 4,171/9,624 Month: 1,042/974 Week: 1/368 Day: 1/11 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Fitness: Hueristic or Fundamental to Biology?
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8564
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 13 of 47 (391830)
03-27-2007 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by JustinC
03-27-2007 3:46 PM


Fit to be Tied
If "fitness" is an issue for some then maybe drop the term in favor of "success."
Wiki on "Natural Selection"
Natural selection acts on the phenotype, or the observable characteristics of an organism, such that individuals with favorable phenotypes are more likely to survive and reproduce than those with less favorable phenotypes. If these phenotypes have a genetic basis, then the genotype associated with the favorable phenotype will increase in frequency in the next generation.
This is a pretty good defenition. Reproductive success in a single generation seems "fit" to me. Whether the genotype/phenotype of the offspring can also be classified as "fit" remains to be seen.
Edited by AZPaul3, : Minor boo-boo's

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by JustinC, posted 03-27-2007 3:46 PM JustinC has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8564
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 17 of 47 (391866)
03-27-2007 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by JustinC
03-27-2007 5:15 PM


The Natural Fitness of Success
i'm asking is fitness fundamental to the concept of natural selection
I am having a hard time understanding the question. “Fit” means coming up on the positive side of Natural Selection, doesn’t it? If a specific phenotype or gene (and whether we count one or multiple generations of them in the definition) does not survive its environment to reproduce, does not survive the selective pressures, isn’t this denoted as “unfit?”
I cannot see “fitness” and Natural Selection being separate things. One is not a “fundamental concept” of the other. As far as fundamental concepts, Natural Selection is a fundamental concept (a separate operative mechanism) of Evolution. The same relationship does not exist between Natural Selection and “fitness.” Being “fit” is not a mechanism working within the paradigm of Natural Selection, it is nothing more than shorthand to denote success. Survival of the successful, anyone?
And, IMHO it matters not from what view we look. In an organism-based view “fit” denotes surviving to reproduce (one generation, two generations, 2000 generations, take your pick). In the gene-based view “fit” denotes being passed into other generations (1, 2, 2000, whatever).
Are we starting down the road of Semantical Quibbles? Isn’t the real question not “is fitness a concept within NS,” but, “how do we define success (fitness)in NS?”
Now we can quibble the number of offspring vs number of generations vs percentage of available alleles vs number of copies of genes...you know...the good stuff.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by JustinC, posted 03-27-2007 5:15 PM JustinC has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by JustinC, posted 03-28-2007 4:07 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024