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Author Topic:   Fitness: Hueristic or Fundamental to Biology?
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 47 (391814)
03-27-2007 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by JustinC
03-27-2007 3:10 PM


Maybe a population biologist can critique the Wikipedia article on fitness, but it does give the impression that it is an important quantity in population genetics.
Wikipedia gives the definition:
It describes the capability of an individual of certain genotype to reproduce, and usually is equal to the proportion of the individual's genes in all the genes of the next generation.
Anyway, it seems odd that an entire field of biology would use a technical term if it weren't important.

Actually, if their god makes better pancakes, I'm totally switching sides. -- Charley the Australopithecine

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 Message 10 by JustinC, posted 03-27-2007 3:10 PM JustinC has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by JustinC, posted 03-27-2007 3:46 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 47 (391831)
03-27-2007 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by JustinC
03-27-2007 3:46 PM


I really looked up the word because I wan't certain whether fitness actually had a technical meaning or whether it was a vaguely defined concept used more as an heuristic aid to making a simple explanation and to avoid a forbiddingly technical discussion.

Actually, if their god makes better pancakes, I'm totally switching sides. -- Charley the Australopithecine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by JustinC, posted 03-27-2007 3:46 PM JustinC has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by JustinC, posted 03-27-2007 5:15 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 47 (391845)
03-27-2007 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by JustinC
03-27-2007 5:15 PM


Well, I'm not going to make Quetzal's arguments for him, but if the phenomena that are important to him are best studied with the concept of fitness, then of course any theory that precludes fitness isn't going to be particularly useful to him. If the gene-centered view doesn't allow the concept of fitness, then, yeah, I guess I see Questzal's problem with the gene-centric point of view.
If fitness really is important to population biology or population genetics, and if the gene-centered point of view eliminates fitness without any compensatory features, then I would imagine that in these fields the preclusion of "fitness" would be a serious drawback to the concept of gene-centered selection.
-
quote:
So maybe, to clarify the issue, i'm asking is fitness fundamental to the concept of natural selection.
Well, from where I'm sitting (not an expert in population genetics and only knowing as much as Wikipedia has told me), it appears that fitness is a measurement of what natural selecton is doing. I may be biased by my training in the physical sciences, but the ability to measure its effects is what makes a concept useful. Natural selection really only becomes a useful concept if we can see it occurring; "fitness" appears to be one way of measuring whether it is occurring (and, in so doing, gives us an operational definition of what we really mean by natural selection).
But maybe I should bow out and let the biologists explain this. Heh. I'm trying to explain a concept of which I'm pretty ignorant about -- sort of like a creationist.

Actually, if their god makes better pancakes, I'm totally switching sides. -- Charley the Australopithecine

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 Message 15 by JustinC, posted 03-27-2007 5:15 PM JustinC has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by ramoss, posted 03-28-2007 4:23 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 47 (392024)
03-28-2007 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by ramoss
03-28-2007 4:23 PM


I'm not sure whether it matters what I mean by "fitness"; I already posted the actual definition of "fitness".

Actually, if their god makes better pancakes, I'm totally switching sides. -- Charley the Australopithecine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by ramoss, posted 03-28-2007 4:23 PM ramoss has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 47 (392462)
03-31-2007 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by JustinC
03-31-2007 3:53 PM


This thread really doesn't seem to be going any where. Why don't you go to your university's library and check out a book on population genetics? Read up on what professionals say about fitness, work out some of the homework problems, and see if that answers your questions.

Actually, if their god makes better pancakes, I'm totally switching sides. -- Charley the Australopithecine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by JustinC, posted 03-31-2007 3:53 PM JustinC has not replied

  
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