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Author Topic:   Why Would God Care?
Phat
Member
Posts: 18349
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 103 of 217 (391025)
03-23-2007 6:56 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by Dan Carroll
03-22-2007 4:21 PM


Re: Does God Claim to Care?
Dan writes:
Take your pick. Seriously. Anything from making graven images to coveting your neighbor's oxen. Go hog wild.
*Phat Oinks and scratches his head with a cloven hoof...*
The question, Does God Care? can be broken down for the purposes of this discussion.
  • Is God affected by what humans do? and the answer would be No. God is God and nothing that anyone does is going to diminish Gods glory, power, emotion, will, or any other attribute of God, by definition.
  • Does God care about Phat? Does God care about Dan? .....In the sense of whether God is an impersonal cosmic energy and/or is too busy racing along the wave of infinity and creating untold billions of other little planets and people and purposes....I say and declare that IMB yes! God not only cares but God has the mental/intellectual capacity to be fully aware of each and every thought, wish, hope, and concern that is in each of our minds and hearts this very moment as we speak and type. (remember that part of this question implies defining God...as we understand Him. )
  • Does God expect us to follow a set of rules and be chaste and well scrubbed as we await His acceptance of us? I believe that God accepts us as we are. If anything can be learned from this question, it is the fact that God foreknows every intention and attitude of our heart and expects us to do our best as we understand it rather than as He/She decrees it. God does want us to get to know God not because God is vain but because God foreknows that its the best way for us.

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 95 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-22-2007 4:21 PM Dan Carroll has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 104 by purpledawn, posted 03-23-2007 7:49 AM Phat has not replied
     Message 106 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-23-2007 9:52 AM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18349
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 108 of 217 (391053)
    03-23-2007 11:13 AM
    Reply to: Message 106 by Dan Carroll
    03-23-2007 9:52 AM


    Re: Does God Claim to Care?
    Dan writes:
    There's that mysterious magnificent destiny again. Any old time you want to clue us in what it is, feel free. So far it's just "talk to God," which I would think he'd be capable of initiating... what with the omnipotence and all.
    Oh so you want God to start? Welll...I'll take it as a sign that He wants me to be His mouthpiece! So here we go....are you ready?
    Phat becomes the voice of God:
    Dan, I care about you. I care because all of you humans were made in my image.... BTW I want to give you props for that sense of humor you have! It makes people laugh and laughter is a great medicine! You may wonder why I do not interfere more...being omnipotent and all! The reason is because I gave you great minds and want you to do your collective best first. I will step in when needed.
    *cough* One more thing, Dan. I really wish you would talk to me more often. Just because I know what you are going to say before you even say it is no excuse! I love you, son! Don't take any wooden nickels!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 106 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-23-2007 9:52 AM Dan Carroll has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 110 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-23-2007 11:22 AM Phat has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18349
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 142 of 217 (391243)
    03-24-2007 1:42 AM
    Reply to: Message 117 by ringo
    03-23-2007 12:47 PM


    Re: Does God Claim to Care?
    Ringo writes:
    That seems to fit the "jealous God" scenario - He wants us to bask in His glory instead of "enjoying ourselves" without Him. Seems a tad insecure, too.
    I don't think believers will want to go there.
    I do.
    Lets presuppose that God does care about our well being. God is so complete...so much a source of comfort, love, and energy...that He foreknows that it is to our best interests to hook up with Him. His way is the best way by default.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 117 by ringo, posted 03-23-2007 12:47 PM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 143 by ringo, posted 03-24-2007 1:52 AM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18349
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 144 of 217 (391271)
    03-24-2007 7:38 AM
    Reply to: Message 143 by ringo
    03-24-2007 1:52 AM


    Re: Does God Claim to Care?
    Ringo writes:
    That doesn't even remotely approach the neighbourhood of what I said.
    Where's the jealousy? Where's the insecurity? Are they part of His "completeness"?
    Phat writes:
    Are we talking about jealousy from Gods perspective or from human perspective? Besides, if God were truly insecure, He never would have allowed anything other than the best path.
    What's the point of free will if we're not free to choose the second-best way?
    Phat writes:
    I agree.
    And how does touching Jimmy deviate from the "best way" anyway?
    Phat writes:
    Thats between Jimmy and God. If Jimmy were my son, I would simply remind him to wash his hands before dinner.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 143 by ringo, posted 03-24-2007 1:52 AM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 146 by ringo, posted 03-24-2007 12:49 PM Phat has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18349
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 162 of 217 (395751)
    04-17-2007 7:33 PM
    Reply to: Message 157 by Dan Carroll
    04-17-2007 4:41 PM


    Why Would God Care Or Not?
    Dan Carroll writes:
    The closest I've seen to an actual reason so far is the artist metaphor, and I addressed that earlier today. If an artist fucks up a picture, they don't get all pissy about how the picture fucked up. They correct their own actions.
    The difference is that Art is not a living thing, nor is it usually drawn or created to have a mind of its own.
    If an Artist made Art (or a living sculpture) that had a mind of its own, that Artist/Creator may well expect the Art itself to correct itself. Does that make any sense?
    Bottom Line, Dan: There is no way that any human (or piece of art) will ever be able to explain to you why your Creator/Sculptor should care about you. You were given (through evolution or creation) a mind that was designed to correct your imperfections and idiosyncrasies.
    Perhaps you regret starting a topic that presupposed the Creator/Artist to be real...I dunno. Are you happy if God is not in the picture, so to speak? (If not, would you want Him to care, assuming His existence? )

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 157 by Dan Carroll, posted 04-17-2007 4:41 PM Dan Carroll has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 164 by Dan Carroll, posted 04-17-2007 8:01 PM Phat has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18349
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 169 of 217 (395874)
    04-18-2007 9:19 AM
    Reply to: Message 168 by Archer Opteryx
    04-18-2007 8:14 AM


    Re: Knowing God
    Archer writes:
    Many of our questions about a deity are built into the picture we draw at the outset. Change the picture and even some urgent questions become meaningless.
    Thats certainly true.
  • If an omnipotent Being could create and uncreate at will, why indeed would such a Being have to care about its creation? The only obvious answer would be because such a Being would have empathy for our pains, trials, and tribulations.
  • We can endlessly speculate on how such a Being would think or could think. The final analysis will have us doing just that---speculating. There really is no answers.

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 168 by Archer Opteryx, posted 04-18-2007 8:14 AM Archer Opteryx has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 171 by mike the wiz, posted 04-18-2007 10:25 AM Phat has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18349
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 177 of 217 (395929)
    04-18-2007 12:51 PM
    Reply to: Message 176 by Dan Carroll
    04-18-2007 12:43 PM


    A quick question for the topic author
    I have a couple of quick rhetorical questions for you, Dan:
    1) What are the overall implications if God does not care?
    2) What are the implications if He does?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 176 by Dan Carroll, posted 04-18-2007 12:43 PM Dan Carroll has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 178 by Dan Carroll, posted 04-18-2007 12:57 PM Phat has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18349
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 195 of 217 (396604)
    04-21-2007 7:11 AM
    Reply to: Message 194 by Neutralmind
    04-20-2007 8:33 PM


    Re: Rest of the Story
    Neutralmind writes:
    There's a God that has feelings, why would he care about us doing something that's immoral, or sinning if it doesn't hurt anyone?
    Which leads to some rhetorical questions:
  • Who is the definer of words and of meaning? In other words, Does God actually decree some actions as immoral and thus define for us what immoral is? (If so, we must figure out what it is about certain actions and practices that annoy God so much. After all, it is we who determined that these actions didn't hurt anyone...right?
    Neutralmind writes:
    We can't know what was God's reason(ing) for deeming those actions bad, we can just speculate. What we can know is that some actions (or even thoughts) are considered bad by the God of the Bible.
    Or....we are being told of how this God thinks by human authors of the Bible.
    Thats the thing about the Bible. I don't see it as strictly innerrant, yet I also don't see a bunch of human authors with political agendas writing it either. In overall context, the Bible describes the interactions between human thinking and reasoning and our beliefs about and/or awareness of God..(the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Father of Jesus)
    Strictly speaking, any action undertaken by a human for the purpose of pleasure, gain, or purpose would logically have to bode well for everyone else. It may be true that two men sleeping together causes no discernible harm to a village or culture, but perhaps there are other factors:
  • The impact of role models. Good or Bad?
  • The sublimation of physical passion and intimacy that may have been better vented through either of these two men going on a quest for the good of society rather than just laying around pleasuring each other.
    Thats just one example...and little Johnny is another...but in order to answer whether God would care or not, we need to examine whether or not we are doing our very best in any situation which falls under this type of scrutiny.
    Take myself. Does the amount of time I spend sleeping hurt anybody?
  • It needs to be examined by comparing what I do to what I could be doing.
  • The issue boils down to whether humans have the right to do what they want regardless of whether God cares (and society) or whether we owe our behavioral choices and allegiances to the overall Greater Good. (God included)

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 194 by Neutralmind, posted 04-20-2007 8:33 PM Neutralmind has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18349
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 206 of 217 (442973)
    12-23-2007 10:22 AM
    Reply to: Message 49 by nator
    03-17-2007 8:55 PM


    Re: Watch that first commandment
    Nator writes:
    You forgot a third option.
    "Not worship anything at all".
    Well...what about rampant materialism? It seems that we come darn near to worshiping that at this time of year! The retailers are flipping out over mediocre sales. What do they expect from us?
    Edited by Phat, : added link

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 49 by nator, posted 03-17-2007 8:55 PM nator has not replied

      
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