|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: -Moral Standard In All of Humanity- | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
joshua221  Inactive Member |
There exists what is truly and absolutely right and we can discern what that is, there is a standard and the standard is what is perfectly right and good. If we were unable to know what was right and good then there would be little reason for us to exist as we could not live a good life or even know what that entails, everything dealing with morality and conscience would be a subjective absurdity.
Without this "standard" so to speak, the choice between right and wrong would be subjective. So any action from murder to theft would be acceptable in this world. Nothing would matter. We know that such a model or standard exists because we trust that God did not create some sort of silly and simple-minded game for humans to take part in. Why is this nonsense?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
joshua221  Inactive Member |
The choice between right and wrong has always been subjective, Prophex: it's determined by the culture one lives in. Actions that we 21st-century Americans say are deeply immoral have been perfectly moral at other times and in other places. Take slavery or the death penalty for ten-year-old pickpockets..... Slavery and the death penalty have never been moral, morality was sacrificed for the benefit of selfish and stupid human beings.
Maybe because we don't know that any gods exist. If any do, we don't know that they don't absolutely delight in making folks play silly games. Maybe because "perfectly right and good" has no meaning out here in the world, but only as a simplistic mental construct. I can prove God's existence but I understand that I cannot put evidence into God's existence without adequately proving that in the first place. Evidence for a moral absolute is in the word that describes our human ability to discern right from wrong. Conscience. Because humans can know what is right and what is wrong, there must be an answer for every situation and every question as to what the good is. What is good must be good for every human being or conscience has no use for us and is non-existent. Because humans have this ability, there must be moral absolutes/standards where in which every right or good action falls. You are putting out a statement which makes the world into a place where there is no wrong action, there is nothing that one can do that is immoral if morality is subjective.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
joshua221  Inactive Member |
But where is this absolute standard? How does everyone discern that standard? This standard is in all of us, we know what is right. Societies and individuals know that murder is wrong, they know that stealing is wrong, etc, but we can also choose to go against what we know for ourselves and our own desires.
How utterly wrong can you get. If society says murder is wrong, then it is wrong. If society says theft is unacceptable, then it is unacceptable. So, it is "right" to murder and to steal in a society which accepts or promotes these actions as right and good actions?
First, we may believe there is a God but we do not know that. Second, if God exists God could very well be Loki. I must admit I have not given the thought that I need to to be saved in how we know God exists a god whatever. I have relied on the 5 proofs of Aquinas but have actually not relied on them at all as I have been virtually not thinking at all about whether God a god whatever exists. I have accepted it as something that is true through faith I guess. I feel that there is no way to go back really to think about whether a god exists when you have believed that God does exist and is a great part of your life and eventual death for so long. I don't think the word blind could describe my faith that God exists and created me because I have the feeling that God is something so much more than thought and reason. I have began to believe that God wants to see humans think and know and do something with their lives. And I am not an irrational creature. But I still used the line "trust the God isn't playing some sort of game" just to really throw you off and make you realize that absolute human morality exists.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
joshua221  Inactive Member |
Is it ever OK to kill someone? To steal? To bear false witness? If you think about it you will find that the situation is not always cut and dried and sometimes there is no good answer to a situation but only a lesser of two evils so to speak. True, but to deduce the more morally "right" decision is all that we can do in situations such as these.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
joshua221  Inactive Member |
We all know what is right and we all know what is wrong. Certain cases force us into deciding what the right and good is, it may be a struggle, but we can all make the right choice.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
joshua221  Inactive Member |
non-response
Edited by prophex, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
joshua221  Inactive Member |
Music like "favorite ice cream" or "favorite color" is subjective.
Surprised at that statement, we are dealing with objectivities here. Subjective: what is better, blue or red, chocolate or vanillaObjective: What is right? What is Justice? How should one live? Why do I exist?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
joshua221  Inactive Member |
Context please.
Explain the situation you are quoting from or you have shown me nothing.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
joshua221  Inactive Member |
Have you given up at the question?
So, it is "right" to murder and to steal in a society which accepts or promotes these actions as right and good actions? I would like to see some evidence perhaps as to why it is acceptable besides "it most certainly is", otherwise it looks as if I have stumped you. You see, there really is a "standard" that exists. We can all see it and decide what is righteous. To deny it's existence is to deny the existence of morality altogether.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
joshua221  Inactive Member |
Your "right" should be the same as mine as long as we are correct in our judgements and follow exacty the standard of perfection that exists. Unfortunately we are all imperfect and following this perfectly just model is often difficult.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
joshua221  Inactive Member |
It may have been anything, if there isn't context then it could be anything. It could be a dream.
Just write a little about the story and what you were actually quoting so we can examine it further.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
joshua221  Inactive Member |
nevermind. deleted it as it is outlined below
why'd you call me kiddo Edited by prophex, : No reason given. Edited by prophex, : No reason given. Edited by prophex, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
joshua221  Inactive Member |
Alright guys.
What I have said remains it seems as a dying explanation for life and philosophy. Of course it seems that what is "perfect" or "absolute" is only described in books by men who spent their lives on these concepts such as Plato. Plato tried to present the answer to "What is Justice", although there are many things in his great work that I can discuss and debate with my peers, I feel that his effort was so amazing because his answer is the best explanation ever written to this day. Books such as these (the books that really matter) all accept the ideas of objective absolutes existing. For there is no reason to think or question or wonder without acknowledging, striving, or seeking these absolutes. It seems as if humanity has a problem as we cannot be perfect but can only provide the best answers that we can. But there is so much brilliance in this search. There is so much godliness in it. I want to know that everyone acknowledges the existence of these absolutes. You see, as jar was trying to point out - Many have written works with acceptance of these absolutes of course, but none could perfectly describe them and define them. For that I may admit is entirely implausible. The point of this thread is that for one to think, and think of things that matter in life, one must accept the existence of these absolutes and seek to define them. The cliche is to "seek the truth", but that is exactly what thinkers do, what philosophers do. This is philosophy. Thank you very much for your responses.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
joshua221  Inactive Member |
quote: You can't understand it I think.
quote: Oh.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
joshua221  Inactive Member |
quote: But so far everyone has told me that hiking the AT is impossible, that human beings cannot know what is truly true. You yourself have. If there is anything close to "hiking the AT" it is in writing a work that can be regarded as true or beautiful or amazing. A book like "Either/Or" or "The Castle", you know, you know.
quote: Something I'm going to be thinking about for a while jar.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024