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Author Topic:   First Openly Gay Congressman dies... hero or villain?
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3959 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 8 of 111 (356559)
10-14-2006 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Hyroglyphx
10-14-2006 8:45 PM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
there's a difference between liking boys and liking "little" boys.
when you manage to realize the difference (and the prevalence of child molestation in the christian church), please open your mouth again.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-14-2006 8:45 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-14-2006 10:20 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3959 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 11 of 111 (356570)
10-14-2006 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Hyroglyphx
10-14-2006 10:20 PM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
What's the difference in your mind?
the difference lies in the general use of the word boy. i'm sure you'd say "sorry fag, i like girls". does this mean you're a pervert? no. it means you used the word girl in reference to the female sex. if you'd said "i like little girls" then we would have a problem.
How about the prevalence of child molestation, period? Its disturbing.
If I said that Asians have a penchant for little kids would that be unduly singling out a group or would I be spot on in my assessment? That would probably be unfair to all Asians, eh.
then why did you fail to acknowledge the difference between gay and skeeze?
i brought up the christian church because that's where almost everyone i know got theirs and they're all about sexual suppression. half of the problem with sex crime is supression. the other half is power... and that may stem from rebutting the suppression.
Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-14-2006 10:20 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-14-2006 10:52 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3959 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 14 of 111 (356607)
10-15-2006 3:12 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Hyroglyphx
10-14-2006 10:52 PM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
What it does mean is that pornography is the stepping stone for virtually all the cases of this.
like a gateway drug?
*scene from harold and kumar*
*puts shotgun in mouth*
omg i'm so fucking high right now.. nothing can hurt me!
really? you mean the fact that sexual urges are natural and normal has nothing to do with it? and the fact that expressing these healthily and openly makes one well-adjusted and that hiding them in the dark and feeling guilty about how god made you leaves you completely psychologically messed up has nothing to do with it?
porn causes nothing. it just introduces people to a world they were wrongly kept from. if these people were allowed to even whack it without feeling ashamed, then maybe the shame that they naturally feel from boning the nearest four year old would be as monumental and convicting as it ought to be.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-14-2006 10:52 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-15-2006 3:50 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3959 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 20 of 111 (356669)
10-15-2006 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Hyroglyphx
10-15-2006 3:50 AM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
Is that societally induced from a repressive religiosity?
yes.
I doubt you could say that when visiting native american tribes or pacific islanders or tribes in the amazon who don't understand these religious views, and yet, maintain an understanding of sacredness in chastity.
don't just say things like this. prove it.
what about the pacific islanders in which the men and boys live in a central lodge and have sex with each other and only go home to their wives (who own their own homes) to impregnate them?
i'd wager that you have no idea what you're talking about and are spouting bullshit you heard in church somewhere. but that's just my guess.
However, when a natural desire and those legitimate emotions are replaced with cheap substitutes
what are you talking about?
no, i know what you're taling about, but it's bullshit.
An interesting parallel between rapists and serial killers is their penchant for pornography.
you know most serial killers' favourite ice cream is butter pecan? guess what mine is. oh shit!
an interesting parallel between rapists and serial killers is that they were abused as children. they seek to take back the power that was taken from them and express that in different ways. if it's not power they're seeking, generally, they're just insane. it's not because of the dopamine release and the need to have increased dopamine release everytime no matter what you or my mother say. why doesn't "normal" christian married sex create increased dopamine need? does god protect you from becoming serial killers?
But unless its checked and expressed in a healthy way, those natural inclinations can take on some dark aberrations.
healthy does not mean think about baseball and go back to your studies.
The only thing that these people want protected is the sacredness of sex and love. When it loses its sacredness, it turns into a cheap substitute that often leaves the person still wanting.
then teach the sacredness of love and sex. this is found in realizing the importance of giving pleasure and kindness to another person, not waiting till you're married so you can bone her viciously and wait around for her to tell you she has a headache. it has nothing to do with making babies. it has nothing to do with worshipping god. it has to do with seeking first the pleasure of another and being wondrously surprised when they do the same and please you. this can be found in marriage (i hope) in a friendship, in a dating scenario, and so forth. it is when you come across someone who isn't interested in seeking your pleasure as much as you are interested in seeking his that it becomes "cheapened". sex is how we procreate. it is also one of the ways we bond and form small tribal groups. you are more affectionate with your close friends than with others right? what's to stop that from being sexual in a different time when we didn't have fifty thousand preachers telling us that sexual expression is sinful? i don't know if you've read your bible recently, but that's what it says. okay maybe not sinful but undesireable. paul, that dear asshole that founded christianity, said that it is preferable to remain celibate, but okay to marry and bone a woman to keep from sinning. why? because he was talking to men and women are not important and have nothing to contribute. albeit he later contradicts himself, but then what good religous leader doesn't?
you want sacredness in your sex? teach your children to respect themselves and others enough to admit and healthily express themselves and always use care and protection. teach them to ask about testing and teach them about how sex works. if it is open and honest and not dark, secret, and sinful, it doesn't cause these things. you do know that people lived in one bedroom houses until very recently, right? and children slept in the same room as their parents who were boinking, right? i'm not suggesting you do this. it might result in a healthy child in other situations, but not in this culture. but be honest and open with them. generally expression leads to sex play and not actual sex. in fact, most children engage in sex play on their own. of course we generally beat them for it and shame them and then they end up cold and dispassionate when we actually allow them to get married.
no, no, porn causes depravity.
now, i'm willing to agree that much porn creates an artificial world in which men dominate. but i'd wager that it's because of the audience. the actual industry is run by women and probably the single most empowering industry there is. but this doesn't change the face that she gets it in the face and he doesn't. but this is due to the secretive nature of it. if you put it all in the dark, then the dark parts are free to be expressed. but then when you think dark bits you think bondage and homosexuality and when i think dark bits i think abuse, murder, rape, incest... but then i'm just a crazy liberal.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-15-2006 3:50 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-15-2006 2:38 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3959 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 22 of 111 (356678)
10-15-2006 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Hyroglyphx
10-15-2006 12:07 PM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
i'm only going to say this once, and you had better drop it after.
porn store windows are blacked out because it is illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to be provided with these images. the blacking out of windows is how the stores prevent themselves from getting shut down (it's actually probably required by law). it's not because they're ashamed, it's because it's the law. also, this is why many stores check id when you enter.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-15-2006 12:07 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-15-2006 3:11 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3959 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 25 of 111 (356693)
10-15-2006 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Michael
10-15-2006 1:13 PM


Looks like you have five assertions in there--can you back them up?
no, he can't. what he's talking about is the arousal of the lymbic system. allegedly, every arousal of it results in a need for greater stimulation next time. this i guess is why married people eventually stop having sex since it no longer does anything and they'd eventually have to switch to erotic asphyxiation to get anything out of it and then we have dead married people.
anyways. my mom uses this argument. but then i ask why doesn't "normal" married christian sex cause this problem? no, only porn and oral sex start this slippery slope. although, i have to say. holding hands still drives me crazy and i've passed into depravity and mortal sin so i don't know what they're talking about.
it's the same question as "why don't all people who drink become alcoholics?" because drinking doesn't cause alcoholism, propensity to addiction does. i used to look at porn. i gave up on it. i like to watch them with someone, but it really just sits there and is usually much more ridiculous than it is arousing.
but then ask porn stars what they're sex life is at home. for most it's lights off, missionary. so what is it about watching porn that makes you a serial killer but being in it leads to sexual reductionism? do you think maybe it's because porn stars have a healthier idea of what sex is and they can separate the ridiculous staged stuff they make from reality?
Can you show me how the abstract supports your argument?
no, he can't. he didn't read that far.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Michael, posted 10-15-2006 1:13 PM Michael has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3959 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 27 of 111 (356700)
10-15-2006 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Hyroglyphx
10-15-2006 2:38 PM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
You criticize me for making bare assertions only to present an unsubstantiated claim of your own?
i made mention of a specific example in papua new guinea i believe. it's kind of common knowledge to those who don't have their heads in uncomfortable places. you talk in broad sweeping strokes about thousands and thousands of people groups who have little to nothing in common.
This is the type of yarn that is spun by the likes of Mead, Havelock Ellis, Alfred Kinsey, Margret Sanger, and host of others. Its a lie. Its an attempt to create their own society like that of ancient Greece and Rome where Vomitoriums expressed an gluttonous indulgence.
there is no excuse for fabricated science. but one person's refutation of one other person does not give legitimate rise to the denouncement of an entire field of research.
Why doesn't normal "Christian sex", (whatever that is), increase Dopamine?
it does increase dopamine. i didn't say that it didn't. i asked why is it that for some reason "normal" christian married sex does not lead to the slippery slop of lymbic response.
But it seems so obvious that just as you could easily place part of the blame on abuse, particularly sexual abuse, you could easily parallel pornography.
but pornography isn't sexual abuse.
Empowering? I find it ironic that in one instance people speak disparigingly about biblical principles as being misogynistic when it is unequivocally shown that pornography celibrates the degredation of the woman. And evidently we see that in two forms of Feminism, one branch viewing the porn industry as a facet of women's liberation, and the other branch viewing it as men abusing women's sexuality for their own cause,
did you actually read what i wrote? i said that much of mainstream porn places women in a submissive and denegrated role. however, the reality of the porn industry is very different. it is controlled by women and women do in porn what they want. however, they create a product that is desired by the populace. it's not porn that denegrates women, it's men.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-15-2006 2:38 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3959 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 31 of 111 (356707)
10-15-2006 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Hyroglyphx
10-15-2006 3:11 PM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
evc policy is probably related to the fact that there are minors on this site.
company policy is related to the fact that YOUR TIME IS THEIR MONEY!
people go through the back door and hide stuff from their families because they have been shamed by an unhealthy upbringing.
i'm not ashamed of buying condoms. but do i brag loudly in the cvs when i go pick them up? i'm not ashamed of going to the adult store. but i don't call my mom and announce it every time. i'm not ashamed of my toys. but i do keep them in the closet. i'm not ashamed of having sex. but i don't do it in public. i'm not ashamed of looking at porn. but i don't have it on my desktop when i go to class with my laptop to take notes.
i'm not ashamed, but it's really not anyone's business what i do with my time. everything has it's place and time but that time is not at work and not on evc and not sunday dinner with your grandparents. the fact that people have been convinced that they ought to be ashamed of a healthy interest in sex is not proof that there is a natural shame in sexuality. the fact that women are so ashamed of their bodies that many have never seen a gynecologist and often feel raped after a pelvic exam is not proof that they are dirty and ought to not be interested in their bodies.
the fact that people do not communicate their desires and needs with their sexual partners is proof that we have a fucked up society not that there is something shameful about porn.
there is no logic in your argument.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-15-2006 3:11 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-15-2006 7:35 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3959 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 44 of 111 (356778)
10-15-2006 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Hyroglyphx
10-15-2006 7:35 PM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
So place a disclaimer like any other website does. If it isn't wrong then it shouldn't be a problem.
it's not a matter of being wrong, it's a matter of being illegal.
You won't get fired for surfing the net at most companies. At most, you'll get a stern warning not to be unproductive on their bill. But most companies will fire you on the spot for pornography. So why do you think that is?
they're fucking stupid?
I would be more inclined to say that its because their significant other will hurt by it. The thought is the pre-cursor to the action.
only to fundies.
My wife had a hysterctomy so no more condoms for me. But when I did buy them I didn't feel any shame for that either... Maybe its because buying condoms has nothing to do with pornography.
you know a vasectomy is more effective? why didn't you take the step to meet her in her endevours?
That's because you're around like-minded people. Big surprise that you wouldn't feel it then. Go with your grandmother and then tell me if you feel the same way.
actually, i wouldn't mind talking about it with my grandmother. but then my grandmother is a raging bitch and i don't really talk about anything with her.
hey are ashamed of their bodies not for their biological urges but because television and movies place standards on their outward appearance and make unrealistic requests that gives young girls stigmas if they don't look like the airbrushed bueaty in the magazines.
that's not what i'm talking about and you know it. women are ashamed of their vaginas and their vulvas. it's not because magazine covers have pictures of perfect clits either. it's because our sex organs are the source of sin.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-15-2006 7:35 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-16-2006 2:33 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3959 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 46 of 111 (356816)
10-16-2006 7:43 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Hyroglyphx
10-16-2006 2:33 AM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
Are you suggesting that no pagan would ever be upset that their significant other is viewing pornography?
no. only for fundies is thought precursor to action.
I guess the "my body, my choice" mantra only applies to women.
if you're in the millitary, it's not your body. your body is a government weapon. i thought you knew that when you signed on the line there?
Women are ashamed of their vaginas and vulvas??? (Is there something you wanna share? Something traumatic, perhaps? Maybe you just need a good hug). I'm not sure that I've ever met a woman that was ashamed of their vaginas? Some have expressed that its unattractive because of extended labias and whatnot, but not shame.
clearly i'm not, but many are, yes.
and why would i want to share anything about my vulva with you?
Its pretty annoying.
sucks. you know what's annoying? people who try to make their crazed morals part of "natural law" so they have an excuse to stick their noses into the rest of our lives.
but, i'm a christian and no one confuses me with those people. funny thing that.
Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.
Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-16-2006 2:33 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-16-2006 10:47 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3959 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 48 of 111 (356864)
10-16-2006 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Hyroglyphx
10-16-2006 10:47 AM


Re: Its the Sleaze factor - not the Gay factor
Is that a tacit way of saying that you act impusively without thinking before you act? It might explain some things.
no, that is my way of saying i don't do everything i think about.
Not your vulva, your feelings.
yes, why would i want to share any of my feelings about my vulva with you?
Or how about people that use nature as a revolving excuse for their behavior instead of actually addressing the situation.
i wouldn't know what that's like. i don't blame any "sin nature" for my mistakes, and i don't blame "god's will" for my triumphs. i own it all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-16-2006 10:47 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-16-2006 1:24 PM macaroniandcheese has not replied

  
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