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Author
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Topic: So let's look at why the Islamic world might be annoyed by the West?
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3959 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: 05-24-2004
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Message 72 of 174 (315508)
05-26-2006 10:04 PM
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Reply to: Message 55 by Faith
05-24-2006 12:45 PM
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Re: History can't explain Islam's murderous actions
do you know why they chose september 11? it was the date of a battle during the crusades. one of many needless invasions and murderous rampages carried out against muslims in palestine. i wish i could remember the precise year and location of this particular battle. it is also the date when spain began expelling the moors that had converted to christianity. the west has been attacking muslims since they became muslims. that is why they hate us. Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 55 by Faith, posted 05-24-2006 12:45 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 73 by jar, posted 05-26-2006 10:13 PM | | macaroniandcheese has replied | | | Message 77 by Faith, posted 05-26-2006 10:33 PM | | macaroniandcheese has replied |
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macaroniandcheese
Suspended Member (Idle past 3959 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: 05-24-2004
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Message 76 of 174 (315517)
05-26-2006 10:21 PM
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Reply to: Message 73 by jar
05-26-2006 10:13 PM
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Re: History can't explain Islam's murderous actions
but the history is so much deeper and richer than that and is relevant to the discussion because even medieval history is being described by the muslims as causative. the crusades still have an effect. do you forget the fallout when bush used the word in his post 9-11 speeches?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 73 by jar, posted 05-26-2006 10:13 PM | | jar has not replied |
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macaroniandcheese
Suspended Member (Idle past 3959 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: 05-24-2004
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Message 78 of 174 (315520)
05-26-2006 10:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 77 by Faith
05-26-2006 10:33 PM
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Re: History can't explain Islam's murderous actions
or yhwh annihilating the unclean, the ammonites, the moabites, the people of jericho, etc ad genocidum..... oh but that's okay cause yhwh is real or some bullshit. not to be culturally biased or anything.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 77 by Faith, posted 05-26-2006 10:33 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 80 by jar, posted 05-26-2006 10:39 PM | | macaroniandcheese has not replied | | | Message 81 by Faith, posted 05-26-2006 10:40 PM | | macaroniandcheese has replied | | | Message 90 by tsig, posted 05-27-2006 12:57 AM | | macaroniandcheese has not replied |
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macaroniandcheese
Suspended Member (Idle past 3959 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: 05-24-2004
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Message 93 of 174 (315592)
05-27-2006 10:49 AM
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Reply to: Message 81 by Faith
05-26-2006 10:40 PM
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Re: History can't explain Islam's murderous actions
your culture looks nothing like my culture. thank you very much. i was raised to be a world citizen and understand the workings behind things. i don't think they are justified, but we are not blameless victims. war takes two. it always takes two. unless it takes fifty. and these "cultures" (both american and christian) have devalued me every day of my life. why should i have any use for them? i don't have a hidden agenda. my agenda is very open. solve the problem and stop blaming the other side. if we ever bothered to actually help people; if we ever bothered to actually share the knowledge about running a stable government that we have managed to learn while having our heads in our asses; if we ever bothered to give people more than just free money with our developmental strings attached; maybe we could actually accomplish goals. it's just like missionary work. people who go and cure disease and build houses and infrastructure and share their hearts along the way do save people. people who go scream on the street corner about how everyone walking past them is going to hell get eggs thrown at them. and you're 'if you love it so much then why don't you marry it' is juvenile and further very uneducated. only one or two specific groups weak burkhas. muslim women in india wear saris and have partially exposed stomachs; indonesian muslim women wear bright colors and the clothing of their native culture. in other words, your smear is weak and laughable. OFF TOPIC - If you must read content, use the Peek button, but Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein.
AdminPD Edited by AdminPD, : Off Topic Warning Edited by AdminPD, : Rendered Invisible
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 81 by Faith, posted 05-26-2006 10:40 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 94 by Faith, posted 05-27-2006 11:25 AM | | macaroniandcheese has not replied |
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macaroniandcheese
Suspended Member (Idle past 3959 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: 05-24-2004
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Message 107 of 174 (315707)
05-28-2006 1:13 AM
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Reply to: Message 99 by Faith
05-27-2006 8:02 PM
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Re: You know jar, you need to stop smearing your opponents
You slam the true Christians jar, in extremely nasty terms, so you get no apologies from me for telling the truth that you aren't a Christian. Your calling yourself a Christian doesn't impress me any more than the beliefs of Bible Christians impress you. Yours is the perversion of Christianity. We can keep this up all day you know. in the end, my father will judge you for your hate and your presumption to judge those he has called to his side. i've had enough. i demand that faith be prevented from further proclaiming who is and isn't any given thing.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 99 by Faith, posted 05-27-2006 8:02 PM | | Faith has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 108 by AdminNWR, posted 05-28-2006 1:55 AM | | macaroniandcheese has not replied |
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macaroniandcheese
Suspended Member (Idle past 3959 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: 05-24-2004
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Message 113 of 174 (315780)
05-28-2006 1:09 PM
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Reply to: Message 112 by nwr
05-28-2006 10:36 AM
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Re: but why is the Islamic world annoyed at the west
That was a long time ago. The people who might have been angry then are long since dead. The question is, why are present day residents of the middle east angry at the west? of course i was told discussion of old things was off topic, but the point is that they have told their children and their children's children and so forth until anger at such things has become part of their identity. that is why the 'ancient history' is relevant. we can solve all the 'new' problems and we will never fix it until we solve the 'old' problems. but there was a book we discussed in my ir class last fall that suggested that conflict (under the level of dyadic war but possibly resulting in it) is due in whole to lack of necessities. i.e. because palestine doesn't have clean water and because palestine is in rubbles and because palestine has limited food and no infrastructure to speak of, they are rebelling. the book proposes that if there was no need, that excuses such as religion and other similar things would not have a foothold. think about it this way. generally it is those who have nothing to lose who are involved in rebellion. if an entire people has nothing to lose, you're going to have quite a fight on your hands. bah'rain is reasonably well off. do they have conflict? no. but they have islam. columbia has terrorist type revolts all the time. but they aren't islamic. but they have need. now if only i could find my syllabus and the title of that book.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 112 by nwr, posted 05-28-2006 10:36 AM | | nwr has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 116 by nwr, posted 05-28-2006 2:10 PM | | macaroniandcheese has replied | | | Message 117 by Faith, posted 05-28-2006 4:24 PM | | macaroniandcheese has replied |
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macaroniandcheese
Suspended Member (Idle past 3959 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: 05-24-2004
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Message 118 of 174 (315810)
05-28-2006 4:57 PM
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Reply to: Message 116 by nwr
05-28-2006 2:10 PM
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Re: but why is the Islamic world annoyed at the west
true enough. doesn't help that the historical dislike is reinforced everyday.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 116 by nwr, posted 05-28-2006 2:10 PM | | nwr has not replied |
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macaroniandcheese
Suspended Member (Idle past 3959 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: 05-24-2004
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Message 119 of 174 (315811)
05-28-2006 5:01 PM
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Reply to: Message 117 by Faith
05-28-2006 4:24 PM
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Re: No it's not about neediness, & they create their own problems
you and the crazy jewish lady in my class who claimed that "we evolved [and they didn't] need to stop for half a moment. we will never know if the problem is actually need. no one would ever bother to give the appropriate aid. giving people free money isn't the solution. giving them places to have jobs and giving them ways to live healthfully like water and sanitation infrastructure will help. giving them free money and suggesting they buy our products won't help. yes they have a different culture than we do. this isn't a crime. lots of places have different cultures. that doesn't mean we should wipe them from the earth. Off topic comments hidden. If this continues suspensions are the next step. Edited by AdminAsgara, : hide off topic content
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 117 by Faith, posted 05-28-2006 4:24 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 121 by Faith, posted 05-28-2006 5:18 PM | | macaroniandcheese has replied |
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macaroniandcheese
Suspended Member (Idle past 3959 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: 05-24-2004
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Message 122 of 174 (315828)
05-28-2006 7:40 PM
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Reply to: Message 121 by Faith
05-28-2006 5:18 PM
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Re: No it's not about neediness, & they create their own problems
And I said nothing against the culture as such except taht you don't understand it, along with most products of our university system. You and others here are projecting your own feelings onto them, which they don't have because their culture is different. They are ideologically motivated, which you aren't in a position to understand. You have to study it to understand it, and if all you are getting is the kind of propaganda you described, no wonder you don't undertand it. i wasn't getting propaganda. you need to stop assuming and start listening. maybe you should read the book before you assume what it is about. but the point is that i want to understand and i want to learn and you want to blame. or at least that's what it sounds like. you are ideologically motivated, too, you know.
Their own leaders deprived them of the best use of the money, whatever that might have been. so the problem might be leaders and not the people? i can't believe you might admit that. ok so they have flawed leaders. it's happened to us a few times. does this change the possibility that we might be able to amend their feelings if we are able to do so in a structural way and not in any way that would be translatable into the pockets of leaders?
As I understand it, Israel has offered all kinds of help, which they refuse. if you had a big brother who molested you and beat you up all the time, would you let him treat your wounds? Off topic content hidden continuation of this will result in suspensions. Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given. Edited by AdminAsgara, : hide off topic comments
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 121 by Faith, posted 05-28-2006 5:18 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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macaroniandcheese
Suspended Member (Idle past 3959 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: 05-24-2004
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Message 140 of 174 (316128)
05-29-2006 11:31 PM
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Reply to: Message 132 by Modulous
05-29-2006 2:04 PM
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Re: back in time
No. The Holy Roman Empire continued into the 17th Century. sorry. the holy roman empire was neither holy nor roman. it was constructed of german peoples from the central block of europe.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 132 by Modulous, posted 05-29-2006 2:04 PM | | Modulous has not replied |
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