So let's look at why the Islamic world might be annoyed by the West?

but the history is so much deeper and richer than that and is relevant to the discussion because even medieval history is being described by the muslims as causative. the crusades still have an effect. do you forget the fallout when bush used the word in his post 9-11 speeches?

Yes, they hold grudges like nobody else. The fact that they committed equal atrocities against the West doesn't enter into their minds -- that's just the way it ought to be, Allah trampling down the Infidel. Their pride in their culture, long dead and degenerated, and the certainty that Allah is to triumph over us all is what drives them.

or yhwh annihilating the unclean, the ammonites, the moabites, the people of jericho, etc ad genocidum..... oh but that's okay cause yhwh is real or some bullshit. not to be culturally biased or anything.

Faith, like I've told the others, what you are posting has nothing to do with this thread. Please stick to the topic in the OP.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Brenn, like I have told the others, what you are posting has nothing to do with this thread. Please try to stick to the topic as outlined in the OP.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Why don't you put on a burka and go join them, since you understand and sympathize with them so well and have so little use for your own culture?OK jar, carry on. I disagree that this is not about your OP, it's just that you deny its hidden agenda, but go ahead and make your case and then we will see.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

You're copping out of a ligitimate on topic contribution to the thread Jar. I'm showing how and why it's the oppressiveness of the Islamic world that causes it to be annoyed by the West. In order to do that effectively, I needed to show that all oppressive ideologies are annoyed by the free West, so why not Islam.The annoyance is caused, not by the West perse, but by the oppression vs freedom conflict.Also that Israel support by the West is a very significant factor in this annoyance is spot on topic.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

You are right Buz. The REAL reason they are annoyed is all kinds of things in their own psychology other than what jar thinks they are.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Oops, I hit the back button and forgot that I had posted rather than reviewed, so disregard this post. Edited by buzsaw, : To explain error

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

Jar, from the gitgo of this thread, you've been policing topic pretty stringently. both administratively and otherwise. Imo, some of it is nothing but a means of eliminating effective material which goes against your thinking on this debatable subject.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

The topic is the history of the ME and NA from the Ottoman Empire on. The topic originator specifically asked to use the thread to step through the history of the region one step at a time. If you want to discuss your views on Islam, please start a new thread.Edited by AdminAsgara, : Fix subtitle

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AdminAsgara Queen of the Universe

http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

It appears you were quite right on page one, Faith, when you could see where this was going. Jar's trying to spin the annoyee/annoyer problem so as to bedevil the annoyer West and legitimize the annoyee Islamic world.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

Hi AdminAsgara. I posted before I saw your admin action. My comments pertained to the topic title, which I understood to be applicable to the whole train of thought throughout the progression of the topic. I figured the topic title could be applicable anywhere in the thread. Do you think we need to discuss this in the private or public moderation forums?

I just reread most of the thread. The motive issue came up on page one where Jar fingered the West's motives as agressive which seemed to initiate more discussion of motives, et al rather than what Jar wants, being the historical and political aspects et al.I will back off and see where Jar takes us from here, but since religion is in the title, likely ideoligical problems will need to be incuded somewhere along the line sooner or later. That Jar's topic title appears to be more religious than political in nature seems to be the problem here. "Islamic world" implicates ideology more than political and historical, especially since the Islamic world is becoming quite global.I'll be away from my computer until Sat PM, so Jar, this fly in the ointment won't be here to bug your thread for a spell.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

hi brenakimi Thats where mo PBUH got his ideas from, the old testament.The first death in islam was by an islamic sword.Would you like to talk about mo preaching to the people in the pityour post is a "they did it too" argument. Edited by AdminPD, : Off Topic Warning