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Author | Topic: The Clergy Project | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Next will be the list of Evangelical Priests named Steve that support evolution.
I don't think the YECs have any idea that they are but a minor cult form of religion, be it Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu or any other religion and that they should be taken seriously not for their beliefs, but for the potential damage and destruction their handicap might cause to society and civilization. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: It is a list of liberal clergy, not conservatives. More crap. It's a list of clergy. To say that they are liberal clergy is simply more spin doctoring per your usual posts and tactics. They are clergy, normal, middle of the road, conservative Christian clergy. The difference is that they are not another "The Bible according to Faith' cult. There are over 10,000 signatures. Ten Thousand ministers. They are from just about every major Christian faith. Including just about every seminary, at least all of them that are actually accredited. To pretend that they do not represent the mainstream Christian position is simply yet another example of willfull ignorance. Here are a few of the churches: Roman Catholic ChurchReformed Church in America United Methodist Church Congregational Church The Old Roman Catholic Church in North America Evangelical Lutheran Church in America Orthodox Catholic Church National Council of Churches in the U.S.A. United Church of Christ Unitarian Universalist Congregation Baptist Church Disciples of Christ Presbyterian Church PC(USA) Presbyterian Church (U. S. A.) American Baptist Churches USA Society of Friends Lutheran Church Community of Christ Russian Orthodox Church in America Catholic Apostolic Church of Antioch- Malabar Rite Church of Christ Uniting The Unitarian Church Universalist Unitarian Church Lancaster Moravian Church Mennonite Church Southern Methodist University African Methodist Episcopal Western Presbyterian Church Religious Society of Friends Southern Baptist Church of Religious Science Episcopal Presbyterian Church World Council of Churches Baptist Church of Christ Moravian Church in America, Northern Province Old Episcopal Church of Scotland The Progressive National Baptist Convention Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
It is not correct to say they "represent" anyone but themselves. A point I will gladly concede, since the denominations mentioned all agree that one need not check their brains at the door. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I know you reserve the right to pass judgment on absolutely everything and deny conservative Christians that right, but I must demur. Please quote where I said that.
Your list is something like 75% KNOWN liberal churches and many of the rest I just don't happen to know about, but the totally liberal to leftist National Council of Churches and World Council of Churches being on the list kinda sums it up. More of the Gospel according to Faith? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith, your going down the list and assigning your own spin to each of the churches is exactly what this is all about. You add silly notations such as "temporarily confused I hope" or "known liberal".
Known by who? By the Right-wing Conservative Christian Community? If that's the case, bring out your list of churches and we will have something to work with.
If you aren't aware that there was a massive divide in the churches in the early 20th century between liberals and conservatives you don't know much about church history jar. Well Faith, time and time again I've asked you to provide the support for your position, to try to convince us that there is merit to considering your premise. Once again, here is your opportunity. What reasons are there for anyone to consider your basic premise as a valid point?
You know nothing about the whole conservative wing apparently, the conservative seminaries etc. Great, provide a list of these Seminaries. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
There was a reason that I mentioned YEC. There is absolutely no reason that both Evolution and the Theory of Evolution should not be questioned. So even though I'd want to know the methodology of the CNN poll, I don't have much of a problem with 55% of Americans believing that God created man in his present form. The odds are that many of those simply have not seen the evidence or even really considered the question, and afterall, it was also a poll of Americans who are among the industrialized world's poorest educated, particularly in science.
But YEC is something different. They are simply wrong. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Is it possible, since over thirty different churches were included, that what you call Liberal groups are representative of Christianity?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: My own pastor reiterated this recently, when he said there is no other kind of Christian than a "Bible-believing" Christian, although we use that qualifier a lot in venues like EvC for the sake of discussion because so many claim the title. and
Not by a genuine Christian. Those statements seem to imply that the people that signed the resolution of the Christian Project are not "Real or Genuine" Christians. We've tried to determine what a Christian is in other threads, but with little success. Perhaps within this thread we might get a little further. Here we have a list of over 20,000 individuls that claim not only to be Christians, but Christian Clergy. So, what defines a Christian, not Christ-like, but a Christian? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Did you bother to check the site bkelly? It is not a Christian site as you implied, but a generic marketing site that caters to any and all beliefs as well as no beliefs at all.
Regardless, there is no connection between the nature of a site and particular information that may be found there. Even a purely marketing site might have decent definitions of the varioous religions they market to. To assume that Faith endorses the marketing portions of the site or the other religions it markets to is simply silly. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Well, first, let me correct a mistatement I obviously made.
The list is only 10,000+ names, not 20,000. That was a mistake on my part and I'd like to correct it now.
People claim all kinds of things rightly and wrongly. Yes, people can claim anything. They can claim to have the correct interpretation of the Bible. Means nothing in itself. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
And I would say that they are Christians. Anyone that professes a belief in Christ as Saviour is a Christian.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
However, I am assured by iano and Faith (and many other professed Christians) that this is not the case. Yes, the no true scottsman fallacy and willfull ignorance rolled into one package. People like Faith, buz, iano, WILLOWTREE, almost all of what is described as the Conservative Christian movement, never face reality. Instead, they love to just toss out any evidence that might threaten their beliefs. This is simply another acknolwedgement that their position is so weak, their faith and beliefs so weak, their religion so weak that it cannot withstand any challenge. This is also the reason that so many of them favor separate schools for their children. They know that unless they shelter their kids from reality, hide them away in a fantasyland were they can keep them ignorant and unexposed to reality, they kids might actually learn to think. They hope to create a self-defined, self-imposed ghetto. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
But they are not falling away. They are in the church. What makes you think they are the ones falling away and not those who exhibit willfull ignorance like the Young Earth Creationists?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Lots of words, but no meaning.
What does any of that have to do with the question asked? How do you tell that those who signed the document are the ones falling away as opposed to those who show willfull ignorance? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I can't answer it any more clearly. If you accept evolution, then you are wasting your time persueing the God of the Bible. They cannot coexist. So says Lizard Breath. But that does not answer the question I asked. All you are doing is expressing the gospel according to Lizard Breath. From the resolution:
Within the community of Christian believers there are areas of dispute and disagreement, including the proper way to interpret Holy Scripture. While virtually all Christians take the Bible seriously and hold it to be authoritative in matters of faith and practice, the overwhelming majority do not read the Bible literally, as they would a science textbook. Many of the beloved stories found in the Bible - the Creation, Adam and Eve, Noah and the ark - convey timeless truths about God, human beings, and the proper relationship between Creator and creation expressed in the only form capable of transmitting these truths from generation to generation. Religious truth is of a different order from scientific truth. Its purpose is not to convey scientific information but to transform hearts. We the undersigned, Christian clergy from many different traditions, believe that the timeless truths of the Bible and the discoveries of modern science may comfortably coexist. We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests. To reject this truth or to treat it as “one theory among others” is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children. We believe that among God’s good gifts are human minds capable of critical thought and that the failure to fully employ this gift is a rejection of the will of our Creator. To argue that God’s loving plan of salvation for humanity precludes the full employment of the God-given faculty of reason is to attempt to limit God, an act of hubris. We urge school board members to preserve the integrity of the science curriculum by affirming the teaching of the theory of evolution as a core component of human knowledge. We ask that science remain science and that religion remain religion, two very different, but complementary, forms of truth. So there is nothing in there that indicates that those who signed do not accept the Bible Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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