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Author | Topic: Genetic problems with genesis, the great flood, etc | |||||||||||||||||||||||
randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4929 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
I don't get the grenade analogy at all, but taking God at His Word has gotten me a long ways. So it makes sense to keep trusting Him.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4929 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Ringo, I have defended and discussed these ideas and on physics threads. You are lying about that.
But regardless, it is men like John Wheeler who claim an intrinsincly undefined state prior to observation. Considering he is a giant in the field of physics, I tend to think of your statements as mere ignorance in your handwaiving away his ideas.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4929 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Crash, ever read any guys like John Wheeler or Anton Zellinger?
As usual, you think merely asserting something makes it true, such as claiming "disinformation" is not a word. Haven't heard you apologize for that slur in which you were shown to be wrong, but then again, no matter how often you are shown to be wrong, you insist otherwise, even on factual matters such as claiming falsely that disinformation is not a word. It's pathetic really.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4929 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
RAZD, uh...do you even know what is being discussed on this thread? Your post has no relevance at all.
It's like if we were discussing the past election, and you decide to make a very strong stand on what the best football program in the country is. what gives?
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Ooook! Member (Idle past 5845 days) Posts: 340 From: London, UK Joined: |
Hi Randman,
Apologies in advance if I don't reply to this message for a while - I've been kinda busy lately. I just wanted to point out something about the idea that "the laws have changed" that seems to be at odds with other justifications of genesis, more specifically the Fall. I'm not too hot on the theology, so correct me if I'm wrong:
1) Before the Fall, everything was perfect; species were immutable. 2) God cursed everthing, thus creating the ability of DNA to mutate. (Incidentally this also explains why we share pseudogenes with chimps but that is off-topic) 3) Therefore, all life was mutating before the flood
If you've agreed so far you've got a problem. The 'laws' that govern why inbreeding is extremely dangerous for the survival of species are tied very closely to mutation. Here's an example, forgive me if it oversimplified: A species' genome has a particular gene (call it gene A) and an individual has a disadvantageous, mutated version of that gene (gene Am). This mutation is recessive and so requires two copies to have an effect - the individual is normal and healthy because it also has an unmutated copy. The genotype of that individual is AAm and when it breeds with another member of its species with a genotype AA there is no problem, all of the offspring are healthy:
Possible genotypes (50% chance of each): AA, AAm Problems occur when two AAm individuals mate:
Possible genotypes: AA (25%chance), AAm(50%), AmAm (25%) You've already got 1/4 of the population unable to survive, and that's just with one gene. Factor in a small population size and more genes and you've got a pretty sickly, unviable population. ALL of the species on the Ark would have to contest with this fact. Or is God going to come up with some other magical get out clause? To put it another way: the 'laws' had changed at the time of the Fall, not the flood. You've still got to explain how to make these extremely tiny populations viable. This message has been edited by Ooook!, 13-11-2005 11:55 AM
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
randman msg 7 writes: The way I have always looked at it is that some physical principles were changed. This is the direct link back to the beginning of this discussion with you. You were the one who said "physical principles were changed" There is no evidence that physical principles have changed. Whether you are talking genetics or chemistry or physics or astronomy. Glad you agreed that you have no such evidence. Enjoy. by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
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AdminNWR Inactive Member |
RAZD, uh...do you even know what is being discussed on this thread? Your post has no relevance at all.
In fact, randman, your posts are also way off topic. Can we stick to the questions raised in the OP. If you want to discuss your understanding of QM, then start a separate thread for that. To comment on moderation procedures or respond to admin messages:
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
randman writes: Ringo, I have defended and discussed these ideas and on physics threads. You are lying about that. Just to point out your general lack of reading comprehension, I said in Message 24:
quote: Instead of calling me a liar, you could have said that I am mistaken. And instead of giving absolutely no backup for your claims - as usual - you could have given a link to where you discussed it. Until you do so, my statement stands. But my main point was that your Woo-Woo Time theory is useless. It's just an excuse to hand-wave the evidence away. People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1496 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
But regardless, it is men like John Wheeler who claim an intrinsincly undefined state prior to observation. Ok, then I'm sure you'll be able to show me, from his writings, where he asserts that that undefined state applies to the very laws of physics themselves. Otherwise we're pretty much just talking about you not understanding what your references are telling you.
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AdminNWR Inactive Member |
This comment applies particularly to crashfrog and to randman.
If you want to discuss QM or other aspects of physics, start a new topic. The current thread has to do with genetics and the implication of creationist assumptions. To comment on moderation procedures or respond to admin messages:
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4929 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Crash, he doesn't claim the laws of physics are undefined. Follow the argument.
Edit to add I didn't see the moderator comments above, and forgot about the OP. Sorry for getting off-topic. This message has been edited by randman, 11-13-2005 10:46 PM
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4929 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
There was clearly a change with the Fall, but the Bible also suggests there were changes later as well, not as large of course, but there are verses indicating God acted after the Fall to limit lifespans, for example.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1373 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
book, chapter, verse?
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4929 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
You know the book, chapter and verse already in Genesis which refers to God limiting man's lifespan.
Why do you ask then?
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1373 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
You know the book, chapter and verse already in Genesis which refers to God limiting man's lifespan. no i don't. remind me.
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