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Author Topic:   Atheist vs Agnostic
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 27 of 111 (189498)
03-01-2005 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Monk
03-01-2005 11:40 AM


My question is: Why don't all atheist consider themselves agnostic?
My question for agnostics is: Since you're presumably pretty negative about the existence of fairies, Bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster, and other fairy tales, why do you make an exception for God?
As it turns out, there are some kinds of God you can be pretty certain don't exist. The only God you can't disprove is the do-nothing God that's specifically trying to hide from humanity.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by 1.61803, posted 03-01-2005 3:30 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 35 by Loudmouth, posted 03-01-2005 4:13 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 54 by Ooook!, posted 03-02-2005 7:36 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 29 of 111 (189500)
03-01-2005 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Monk
03-01-2005 3:05 PM


A dictionary does not define the meaning of a word? Then what does?
The community that speaks that language. Dictionaries do not define words; they merely describe them. That's why different dictionaries all have different definitions for the same words.
This then leads to neither side offering coherent arguments.
Unless we're able to come to some kind of agreement about what words mean, that's exactly what happens.

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 Message 23 by Monk, posted 03-01-2005 3:05 PM Monk has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 32 of 111 (189504)
03-01-2005 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by 1.61803
03-01-2005 3:30 PM


Atheist on the other hand take a stance on the issue and say: THERE IS NO GOD.
Here's one atheist that says "it's not possible to know that there are no gods, but it is possible to know that some gods aren't."

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 Message 30 by 1.61803, posted 03-01-2005 3:30 PM 1.61803 has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 38 of 111 (189515)
03-01-2005 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Loudmouth
03-01-2005 4:13 PM


God, or any deity or hosts of deities, are completely supernatural.
Are they? That's hardly undisputed. In fact it's fairly tenuous for you to make any assertions about qualities that God has when we haven't yet definied what God is.
And moreover, if the natural world encompasses everything that can interact with physical objects, then how can anything be "super-natural"? At the very least, how can anything be "supernatural" and still be expected to have some kind of effect on the natural world? And if God or gods can't affect the natural world, in what way can they be said to exist?
They act on the physical world through supernatural mechanisms (I know, I know, if it affects the physical it is a physical mechanism, but just humor me for the moment).
This sort of acts as a proof by contradiction - since the existence of God in the universe leads to an outcome that is incoherent (physical mechanisms that are not physical), God must not exist.
Or maybe not. I'm not very good at proofs.
Atheists take this lack of knowledge and transfer it to a lack of a deity/deities. I, as an agnostic, prefer to leave it at "I don't know".
But some Gods you can know. For instance, if we propose a God that is omniescent, omnipotent, and maximally benevolent, we know that God does not exist.
I'm atheist about all gods except the minimally detectable ones; like you I must be agnostic about those. But who gives a damn about a god that can't do anything?

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