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Member (Idle past 5849 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Tal's Iraq War: Blood for Oil, Oil for Food, Food for Thought | |||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: I was in Tokyo about 18 months ago and I was housed for part of my trip in an American military hotel. The television had both Japanese and American channels, including CNN and Fox News. I found two things very interesting regarding the broadcast of those two stations. First, instead of the tagline "Fair and Balanced", Fox used the phrase "Part of the Team", dispensing with any pretense of objectivity or of "fairness" or "balance". Clearly, they were a cheering squad for the Neocon leadership and had no interest in questioning a single thing the administration did or planned to do. Second, on CNN there were sometimes messages that came on the screen before news broadcasts and commentaries that basically said that the viewer should prepare themselves to hear views expressed that may be critical of the US actions in Iraq because CNN broadcasts a wide variety of viewponts. In other words, CNN is a real news agency that doesn't simply toe the party line and regurgitate what Bush Inc. wants them to, unlike Fox. This implies to me that military personel are likely being shielded as much as possible from real news sources. I mean, if they were doing that in the military hotel in Tokyo, so far way from any conflict, how much worse would the avilability of real information be in Bagdhad?
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Here's a link to the congressional report on Iraq.
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/serialset/creports/iraq.html enjoy This message has been edited by schrafinator, 01-11-2005 09:26 AM
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: OK, well I guess that they had to warn the vacationing generals in Tokyo so they wouldn't get pissed off at the hotel staff or something. Seriously, now that you know that Fox was touting itself as "Part of the Team" instead of "Fair and Balanced", doesn't that make you pause for just a moment to wonder if they are doing journalism or cheerleading? Conservative people who watch Fox News are not interested in actual journalism or integity. They are mostly just wanting to not ever have their preferred beliefs challenged. That's because Fox news lies and distorts the truth. And yes, I can back that up.
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Tal, did you read any part of the Republican led US Congressional report on Iraq that I provided for you? It disagrees with you.
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Tal, have you read the US Congressional report on Iraq? Here is the link again: http://www.gpoaccess.gov/serialset/creports/iraq.html This message has been edited by schrafinator, 01-12-2005 08:56 AM
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: So, does this mean The US gets to invade and occupy any country who's leader has "aspirations" to build chemical and biological weapons? Gosh, we're going to be busy, eh? Maybe we should only invade the ones with very, very large oil reserves. Oh, BTW, does this mean you admit that Hussein actually did NOT have nuclear or biological capability, but only "aspirations" to REbuild them?
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Contra, when you use language like this, I just roll my eyes and stop reading your posts. Clearly, you are not at all interested in rational discussion. How is anybody supposed to respond to you when you treat them this way? You are frothing at the mouth and that just makes you look like a crazy asshole. Tal, there's no point talking to contra when he gets like this, I suggest ignoring him.
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Contra, if you call a military person a murderer, they are not going to listen to you.
It doesn't matter how airtight your facts are, you are going to put them off. Clearly, your goal is not to persuade him and to help him see your side if you treat him like that. So, what is your goal? To stand alone on the top of your little intellectual mountain with nobody listening to you or even trying to see your point of view because you've been so rude to them? It certainly seems so.
quote: I don't know if you are right or not, because I stop reading your posts when you let yourself behave poorly.
quote: Nobody's asking you to accept any definition as a prerequisite for polite debate. You are simply being told what the consequesnces are when you do not debate politely. People stop listening to you.
quote: Oh, stop being such a drama queen. Nobody is blackmailing you into anything.
quote: I haven't said that you should stop saying anything at all, have I? I simply told you what the consequesnces were likely to be if you continued ranting.
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Now, contra, do you see what Tal is doing?
He is not taking you seriously and is ignoring what you are saying. Now, he is ignoring what I have been saying to him as well, but he cannot point to any insulting behavior as an excuse to why he has not replied to my questions the way he can with you. It makes my position stronger, and your insistance upon calling people disrespectful names makes your position weaker.
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
MSN | Outlook, Office, Skype, Bing, Breaking News, and Latest Videos
The hunt for biological, chemical and nuclear weapons in Iraq has come to an end nearly two years after President Bush ordered U.S. troops to disarm Saddam Hussein. The top CIA weapons hunter is home, and analysts are back at Langley.
In interviews, officials who served with the Iraq Survey Group (ISG) said the violence in Iraq, coupled with a lack of new information, led them to fold up the effort shortly before Christmas. Four months after Charles A. Duelfer, who led the weapons hunt in 2004, submitted an interim report to Congress that contradicted nearly every prewar assertion about Iraq made by top Bush administration officials, a senior intelligence official said the findings will stand as the ISG's final conclusions and will be published this spring. |
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: No, the Bush admin. didn't really try diplomacy. Actually, for a while there before the invasion, I thought that Bush was pretty smart with all of the sabre rattling he was doing. I was reassured that the UN weapons inspectors were in there, doing their thing. The problem came when the inspectors didn't find anything. Then Bush called the inspectors out of Iraq and invaded.
quote: Well, no, actually the prewar intelligence was pretty good coming out of Iraq from the weapons inspectors. The Bush admin just choose to ignore the inspectors and instead chose to listen to Chalabi and believe in a single forged document. They had long before decided to go to war in Iraq regardless of what the rest of the world said and regardless of the results of inspections. They did know that their case was pretty weak, though, which is why they constantly invoked 9/11 and Osamma bin Laden in the same breath as Hussein and Iraq in speeches and interviews in the run up to the war. They counted on the fear and ignorance of the American people, and they used it well. This message has been edited by schrafinator, 01-12-2005 15:56 AM
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Now, contra, do you see what Tal is doing? He is not taking you seriously and is ignoring what you are saying. quote: But wouldn't it have been great to get him to see your side, to accept the rightness of what you say by the weight of evidence alone? What is your goal? To just shout from your mountaintop with nobody listening? Or is your goal to persuade people to your point of view?
quote: And a blinding lack of tact and subtlety is it's own penalty, as well. If nobody is paying attention to the rude man, it doesn't matter how right he is, does it? This message has been edited by schrafinator, 01-12-2005 15:55 AM
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Tal, you might want to read this regarding Fox News and the Iraq war.
http://www.independent-media.tv/item.cfm?fmedia_id=2937&f...
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Tal, have you read the US Congress's report on Iraq?
Here is the link, for the third time. http://www.gpoaccess.gov/serialset/creports/iraq.html
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Actually, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Bush all said that Hussein actually DID have stockpiles of WMD, and that they knew where they were, but that they couldn't tell us where. That turned out to be a lie. Second, according to Blix and the weapons inspectors who were in Iraq right up to the invasion, those stockpiles had been destroyed.
quote: Right. That was back when the US was funding Hussein. Also, there are many terrible dictators killing millions of their own people right now, most notably in Africa. Why aren't we invading them? I'll give you a hint. Those countries don't have the second largest reserve of a certain substance.
quote: ...and showed to intent or ability to do so any time soon. Hussein didn't even control a large part of his own country, and hadn't for a long time, what makes you think he was an imminent threat to any of his neighbors? Also, this was not the rationale for war that Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld used in the selling of the war before we invaded. It was only we invaded and did not find any WMD that the rationale for the war morphed into "saving the Iraqi people from a terrible dictator".
quote: ...and did he have the ability to do it again? Wouldn't he have done so at the start of the invasion, at least at Israel, if he had had that capability?
quote: But the weapons inspectors were NOT FINDING ANY, and they were not allowed to continue doing their job because Bush and co wanted to invade.
quote: Then where are the WMD that Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld said were there and that they knew where they were? Why has almost every single claim about the WMD capability of pre-war Iraq made by the Bush admin. been shown to be not true by Bush's own CIA waepons team?
quote: So we should invade his country, unilaterally, when he is no threat to US soil? Why couldn't we have managed Iraq the way we have managed Cuba?
quote: Sure there's a pattern, but this is no excuse for a unilateral invasion of a sovereign nation that has not harmed the US in any way.
quote: The inspections were working. The inspections were ongoing and had to be stopped because Bush didn't want to wait to let the inspectors continue their work because he wanted to invade. Now, we have not found the WMD that Bush, Cheney and Rumsfelt told us were there, and that they knew where they were. Have you read the Congressional report on Iraq yet? Here is the link: http://www.gpoaccess.gov/serialset/creports/iraq.html This message has been edited by schrafinator, 01-13-2005 09:13 AM
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