Hammer found in Cretaceous layer

even if a large spaceship appears with a three headed pilot? and he opens all the doors?LOL.On a serious note the bit about bubbles is sly misdirection.(1) Bubbles in castings are a problem because they weaken the castings, thus the inspections done to find them before product is shipped. Their incidence is low but constant. If it was high they would not use the process as it would result in too many failures.(2) The hammer is fairly obviously not just cast iron, but worked\hammered into shape from a cast ingot. This process significantly alters the size and distribution of material inside the iron matrix. It severely reduces bubble size in the process of also making the iron stronger (albeit more brittle). Google on hard worked iron and steel.Finally, the Chlorine content cannot be anything but taken from a surface sample: the only sample taken is the filings or else the whole story is not being told. The possibility of contamination of the surface with sweat (salt, sodium chloride) while the hammer was in use is also high, if not during collection of the filings -- without needing a source of chlorine in the environment (which is also probable given the existence of shells). There is also the process of quenching when working iron into shape and the quenching water could be salty, the dried salts then being pounded into the metal rather than forged with it.Too many questions, not enough answers.I say test the hammer, carbon date the handle, have the accretion analysed by a geologist familiar with accretions (especially the ferrous ones eh?) and lets see the results.

---

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

Iron making process today are not like they used to be. There have been improvements in the technology that allow greater consistency.One thing that may surprise people is that {iron} can be processed in a number of different ways with quite different results.First I did a google on {iron impurities} and it turned up a couple of good historical information sites:
Antebellum Iron Works in Western Virginia
IRON, Written by Alex Boyce, 2003Rather than getting iron to a molton state, it was heated until it could be worked - "wrought" - to drive most of the lumpy impurities out. This process can leave inclusions of any small structured material in the metal. Note also the bit about corrosion (from first reference): Next, iron does combine with chlorine:
http://encarta.msn.com/text_761567901___0/Iron.html Then there is the egyptian iron plate:http://www.catchpenny.org/iron.html The presence of chlorine in modern iron where the impurities are very strictly controlled in the smelting process would be something of a surprise, but the presence in historical wrought iron should not be unexpected.Enjoy.

---

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

one more website on this issue:http://gsa.confex.com/...1AM/finalprogram/abstract_27912.htm I think that justifies a "'nuff said" on the topic.Enjoy.This message has been edited by RAZD, 01-06-2005 17:00 AM

---

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

Does anyone else have a problem with this: the surface (10% greater density) is dark and the inside (white is most dense) is white ...It looks like an x-ray with a squiggly line to "look" scientific, imho.also see http://EvC Forum: Hammer found in Cretaceous layer
on the ChlorineThis message has been edited by RAZD, 01-06-2005 23:17 AM

---

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

what do you think a collapsing coal mine would do to a cup that was left behind?Just a thought.

---

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

"Dr Dino" is out to make a buck, and he finds the gullible YEC crowd is an easy target.That doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out

Would you agree that it would be possible to re-excavate such a collapse and find the cup "embedded" in coal?I think of the straw punched through the telephone pole by a tornado ...and as long as there are reasonable possibilities I am not going to leap to any one. k? especially one that doesn't involve reasonable explanations.This message has been edited by RAZD, 01-07-2005 11:12 AM

I think it is just a common x-ray, and the dark shell of the hammer is due to corrosion and signal scatter. This would be consistent with the wood being the least dense, the accreted rock next and the wrought iron the densest.I think the claims about density etcetera are bogus. From the google search I did, it is entirely within known historic manufacturing ability, from chlorine content to shape to handle, etc.I think the accretion was caused by chemical reaction with the metal, also a known process.I think that Dr Dino is a scam artist that is taking advantage of gullible people.That's my opinion for what it is worth.

yeah, I have trouble keeping them apart. It is at the museum, so that would be Baugh.

LOL time to get cooking peeps, there's money to be made in them thar hills!of course they have to be pictures of the virgin or ma teressa or they wouldn't be miracles right?a bun that looks like ((any old person)) is just mildly interesting ...heh. I wonder if these people know that gullible is not in the dictionary ...

or the fact that he has a number of questionable displays should make one seriously question the veracity of anything in the museum.I have been to a number of roadside "museums" where a quick survey showed that time was better spent going in the opposite direction.try a google on "american stonehenge" for an example.

I take it from the lack of further comments on the hammer, one way or the other that this is pretty resolved in most peoples minds.the cup is a different issue and should be another thread if people want to continue that, imho.I think admin should close this for topic drift and because the hammer issue is as done as it is going to be.

no prob: I understand the number imbalance and the effect that has. I usually take no answer as no real issue with the post and leave it at that.

you might want to edit that to the new siteCompelling Questions About The Grand Unified Theory

how about a POTM?