After the argument from design.

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Originally posted by Syamsu:
Most arguments from design, including the famous argument from Paley, are moral arguments. They argue that the goodness of the design of nature demonstrates the goodness of God it's creator. Since this is a moral argument it is not contrary to evolutionary theory (at least the non-racist, non-atheistic versions of it, notably Dawkins presents the design of nature as evil more or less).

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regards,
Mohammad Nor Syamsu

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Nature is neither good nor evil, so morality has nothing to do with it. These are human concepts only.

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Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
Take your hand off the keyboard. Lift it close to your face until you can see each pore in your skin. Twist it around slowly. Clasp your hand. Open again.

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Move each finger one at a time.

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You were created by a loving Father for a purpose.

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And what purpose was that?My mother divorced my father when I was around 3.The only purpose to my life is the one I give to it.[This message has been edited by nos482, 09-13-2002]

Originally posted by Tranquility Base:nos482

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We all have different 'crosses to bare' in or individual situations. The question is what can we do with what we have been given. What is our attitude.I'm of the attitude that if life gives you lemons you make lemonade. As I've meantioned before, I'm a victim of thalidomide, even though I have my limbs more or less intact I do have many other physical and health problems, but I don't let that stop me from making my life as comfortable as possible. I don't even see anything wrong in the continued use of thalidomide, because it is a wonder drug. You just don't give it to pregnant women.The parables of Christ come to mind here. Read them again and you will get the distinct feeling Christ is trying to bring us to a maturity that stops comparing and claiming 'it isn't fair etc'. This is something I face in my life everyday even though I have been a Christian for many years.Anyone who believes that life is suppose to be fair is a fool.I don't blame anyone, or anything, for my condition in life. Life is what you make of it.[This message has been edited by nos482, 09-15-2002]

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Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
^ Fair enough. My only point of departure is that we can find escape from the apparent futility of life by knowing our 'identity' and our 'purpose' and that this comes from God.

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You may get your purpose of life from your belief in god, but I have more meaning to mine. Life is only as futile as you make it.[This message has been edited by nos482, 09-16-2002]

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Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
Schraf

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The Bible tells us that life without God is futile. From my own experince I was having a great time pre-Christianity too but I far prefer living in his purpose for me. But that is just my testimony.

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And what purpose was that? From what I have seen, and heard, from many believers is that the purpose to life is to give praise to god and nothing else. If anything stands in the way of this it most be eliminated. All else is irrelevant. That is not a real life to me. It is slavery of the worse sort because it robs one of any true individuality.[This message has been edited by nos482, 09-16-2002]

Originally posted by Tranquility Base:nos482

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My testimony is that deeply knowing our father (heavenly) is the only way to gain our true individual identity.In what way?Everything else is only a shadow of what is possible. Hell is perhaps nothing more than realizing you missed out on knowing your creator and heavenly father and living out your true identity purely becsuse of stubborness. I can't prove this to you but I am convinced of it.Billions of people live full rich lives without ever knowing your god or caring to know your god.I don't think that living one's life as a slave is all that fullfilling. Your god sounds like the biggest ego maniac there is. Does your god want believers or sycophants? The purpose to my life is more than in the giving of praise to some invisible sky father. That is fine if you want to limit your life in that manner, but I have better things to do.I believe that, in any culture, growing up and learning obedience and relational living in families and communities is a trainer to knowing our heavenly father. Christ is the only way to the Father but for some the only face of Christ is their parents, community and life experiences.That is like saying that they're already Christian, but they just don't know it yet and it is your "task" to show them the light. This is pure arrogance.[This message has been edited by nos482, 09-17-2002]