Belief...a choice?

You're Welcome. The evidence disputes it from your (supposedly dispassionate) point of view. However, filtered through their experiences, preconceived notions, and parent's teaching, it can mean something entirely different. The minutest shred of "evidence" can be the catalyst for an entire belief system. "Train a child...."(corrected ubb codes, AN)This message has been edited by AdminNosy, 11-29-2004 05:46 PM

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"We are a Bible believing church...All men please proceed to the Deuteronomy 23:1 inspection station before going into the Main Sanctuary"

You have made this God-vs-Big-Bang distinction before. For you it seems that only one of them could have happened. I know it's off topic but I'm curious. Do you subscribe to the Young Earth theories of creationism?It seems that we agree on belief in that it cannot really be a choice. Rather it is something that grows out of evidence, experience and teaching.

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"We are a Bible believing church...All men please proceed to the Deuteronomy 23:1 inspection station before going into the Main Sanctuary"

This is confusing!!What "evidence" tells us that human reasoning and rationale and the human mind are evil continuously? How did you evaluate that evidence? Certainly not with that evil mind of yours.Then you don't use reasoning and rationale to determine what religion to believe in?Or is it just "human" reasoning and rationale that you cannot trust? If so, how do you tap in to this non-human reasoning and, more importantly, how do you know it is trustworthy, seeing as you can't use your own evil reasoning and mind to figure that out?(A little off topic)If human reasoning and rationale and the human mind are evil continuously:1. Why are athiests statistically the most likely to be law-abiding citizens? This assumes you believe that God is helping you overcome your evil mind. Forgive me if I made a bad assumption.2. How do you know you are not being fooled into believing the wrong religion, by your evil mind? Perhaps the Buddists are right but your vision is clouded.

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I guess Deuteronomy 23:1 isn't funny enough....looking for something else.

I think you are dismissing me and my inquiries as not worth your time. Accepted if not agreed to.I did not feel that it was a series of "yeah-buts". You introduced new data and I just questioned you about it. I thought that is what we do in a debate forum. Do I need to go to Boot Camp?I did not feel the conversation was circular because the discussions were not about the same things and each offshoot could be used to clarify the main topic.It is obvious from post #29 that your opinion on belief is that you use evidence of some type to reason out your belief. Since the apostle Paul reasoned with rabbi's (Acts...somewhere) I feel that this is a justifiable course to take. It just makes my point...that it is difficult/improbable for some people to believe because of how they are constructed or raised which provides their preconceived notions about everything. Ex: Grandpa says God is real. I'm only seven. Grandpa is the greatest thing since sliced bread. So, what he says is right, God is real.Regardless, don't limit your grandson's yeah-but's too much. That's what grandpa's are made for...to answer the silly questions that the parents are too busy/harried/immature to deal with. I hope you are enjoying all the time you have with him.

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I guess Deuteronomy 23:1 isn't funny enough....looking for something else.

We are back at the idea that spiritual belief requires a different mechanism than naturalistic belief. If the choice is that of God to impart or not impart evidence, how does this affect the admonition that He wants us all to follow Him? Are you saying that He doesn't give this evidence to everyone? If so, then He becomes responsible for our failing to believe.
If He does give this evidence to everyone, then why does He make the evidence so subtle that many don't realize that it is evidence or even realize it is anything at all?
Since God is omniscient, He should know what it takes to get each of us to believe. The choice of following is still ours and He can allow free will to reign in that arena. How is that value measured?

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He has succeeded in is bid for anonymity

The problem with the analogies given are that both 'invisible' sources of the effects mentioned do just that...HAVE AN EFFECT! God doesn't seem to have an effect, on anything. Does He help you in a time of crisis? The bible states that your faith or belief gets you through the tough times. So God doesn't even help you there...your belief or faith in God does.If Jesus' deciples (Christians by inference) "will do greater things than these" as Christ says, then where are the resurrections, miraculous healings, water into wine, walking on water, and multiplications of food that we should expect. Note: Christ said that His followers will not might do these things.Show me an effect that can be definitively attributed to God/Jesus and I will concede that your analogies have some merit. Of course you should be able to rule out all other reasonable causes for this example you provide.Until then I suspect you will influence more people if you don't get upset when someone points out that your poor analogy should be judged based on its lack of merit.

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He has succeeded in is bid for anonymity

Backing up to zero...what you already acknowledge as reality early in life was probably learned at a time when you believed what you were told by those sources of ultimate knowledge...adults (mostly family adults). The questioning didn't start until you started hearing differing opinions but it was then still colored by the original beliefs. The question is did you ever choose to believe anything without evidence. I guess the input of your ultimate knowledge source can be considered valid evidence in a way.Informed choice is still using evidence. My question was: can you choose to believe something that you feel is not strongly supported or has, in your opinion, strong evidence against it?

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He has succeeded in is bid for anonymity

What thread?How are transitional fossils like 2+2=5? You mean that to believe they are transitional is like believing 2+2=5? How so?oops...off topic