Women's Reactions to Rape

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To the contrary, every time Schraf posts I learn something new about rape, and about women. I welcome her participation in any thread of mine

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Awww, thanks froggy.

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1) Imo, society would reflect the fact that men think women are equivalent in intelligence if that was the case

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I would say that a majority of men in western society think that women are just as intelligent as men.

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2) I would concede, however, that intelligence might not be the issue.

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That is possible.

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3) Knowing/thinking someone is not as intelligent as you does not equate with hatred of that person.

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True on an individual level, but generalized to over half of the world's people, it becomes bigotry.Bigotry is hatred.

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Btw, it's nice that you came to Schraf's defense, but I meant that as a compliment, not as a derogatory or sarcastic comment. I have a good deal of respect for Schraf.

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Don't worry, Tag, I knew what you meant.Thanks, too.

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Until men have proven themselves worthy of that trust, no, I don't condone it. "Trust" gets one in three women raped in their lifetime. What we need is a whole hell of a lot of distrust of men by women.

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I'm not sure I want to live in the way you are suggesting, Crash, even if it does mean that my chances of being raped are somewhat higher.I am not saying that women should blindly trust everyone. I think that everyone needs to be very careful about whom they associate with, even on a casual basis.I think it comes down to individuals, and it comes down to how we raise our male children.The reason you hold the values you do is because you were taught them, and you were supported in your beliefs about women and about rape.That is relatively new and radical if you consider the whole of human history on this issue.Slow change is lasting change, and the more people who are raised and encouraged to have our values and principles, the more the world will reflect those values and principles.I don't want to distrust men as a group. That's not fair.

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If you place avoiding interpersonal friction over your physical safety, I can't argue with that. Though I don't see that as a reasonable set of priorities.

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It's not "interpersonal friction" that would bother me.I already live with an underlying wariness of strangers on a gradient: people I don't know, men I don't know, men I know a little, men I know well.I don't want to lump all of them together, because that's not appropriate.I don't want to live in more distrust and more fear than I already have to, which is what you seem to be suggesting I do.Sort of an "Assume every man is a horrible monster and fear and hate him first, ask questions later."It's what would happen to ME that I wouldn't like, not other people.

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And honestly, living this way isn't that bad. Adolescent males live this way just fine. I get along perfectly well with my male friends, despite the mutual understanding that we're prepared to attack each other in earnest in self-defense or on principle, should it become necessary. Men have lived that way for centuries, in every culture.

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Wait, are you telling me that you would beat up your friends, or that they would attack you?I read this to my husband and he gave me a really funny look, and said, "I don't hang out with anybody who thinks about attacking me. If that was a thought I ever had about a person I knew, I wouldn't hang out with them. Why would I?"I asked him about the "should it become necessary" part of what you said, and he said, "Well, sure, if aliens invaded the Earth and took control of my friends and forced them to attack me, I would defend myself."Seriously, neither Zhimbo nor I know any men like you seem to be describing.

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We'd certainly feel like we were "supposed" to fight, if, say, my friend called my wife a slut or something. Would we? I hope not. But I'd be prepared to do it.

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But that's just a verbal insult and hardly justification for any kind of physical violence. I mean, I am sitting here reading this and I really cannot believe that you and other people think that these "rules" are valid or appropriate in the least.Sure, Jim and I would both be angry, but grownups don't violently attack one another because they are angry over some verbal insult.I'm sorry Crash, but that seems like a sereiously juvenile schoolyard attitude.The only time violence would be appropriate is to defend oneself from a physical attack.In other words, when you have no other choice.

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You're so sure that there's this male culture of rape that tells rapists that it's ok for them to rape, but I've never heard anybody tell me that, nor have I heard it said to any other man. So where do we start, with your grandiose plan to change the minds of all men?

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There's more than one study out there that shows that a damn high percentage of college age men would rape a woman if they knew for sure they could get away with it.I am not sure of the quality of those statistics, but it isn't just one study.

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The reality is that there seems to be no way to predict what man will turn into a rapist. If there were, the majority of rapes would be stranger rapes.

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Is it true that there is no way to predict what man will rape, or is it just the case that we don't know if we can tell what men will rape because we haven't worked on figuring out that problem very much?