Author
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Topic: The Divine Proportion: Does It Have a Materialistic Explaination?
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JasonChin 
Inactive Member
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Message 1 of 49 (148033)
10-07-2004 7:58 AM
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Hey, I was wondering if anybody here knows of any naturalistic theorioes as to why the number Phi, also known as the Divine Proportion or the Golden Section, appears so freakishly often in nature. If there's no possible materialistic explaination for it......and I've never heard or thought of any.......then wouldn't it be irrefutable proof of a creator?
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JasonChin 
Inactive Member
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Message 3 of 49 (148274)
10-08-2004 8:20 AM
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Reply to: Message 1 by JasonChin 10-07-2004 7:58 AM
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Gotcha, I'll see what I can do.
This message is a reply to: | | Message 1 by JasonChin, posted 10-07-2004 7:58 AM | | JasonChin has replied |
Replies to this message: | | Message 4 by JasonChin, posted 10-08-2004 9:07 AM | | JasonChin has replied |
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JasonChin 
Inactive Member
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Message 4 of 49 (148280)
10-08-2004 9:07 AM
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Reply to: Message 3 by JasonChin 10-08-2004 8:20 AM
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The Divine Proportion: Does It Have a Materialistic Explaination?
Hey, I was wondering if anybody here knows of any naturalistic theorioes as to why the number Phi, also known as the Divine Proportion or the Golden Section, appears so freakishly often in nature. There are millions upon millions of ways you can derive Phi from the proportions of nature (hence the name "Divine Proportion). For instance, a nautalis sea shell is in spirals. The circumference of one ring to another = 1.618. Sunflower seeds circumference divided by the one below it = 1.618. The circumference of a pine cone ring divided by the one above it = phi. The circumference of the rings on a tree divided by the one before it = 1.618. Your head to your toes divided by your navel to your toes. Your hip to toes divided by your knee to your toes = 1.618. Your shoulder to your finger tips, divided by your elbow to your fingertips = 1.618. Those are just a few examples look it up online for more. BUT the one I find the most interesting is this. In any Honey bee colony in the world, ANY ONE, The number of female bees divided by the number of male bees = 1.618 If there's no possible materialistic explaination for it......and I've never heard or thought of any.......then wouldn't it be irrefutable proof of a creator? This message has been edited by JasonChin, 10-08-2004 08:12 AM
This message is a reply to: | | Message 3 by JasonChin, posted 10-08-2004 8:20 AM | | JasonChin has replied |
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JasonChin 
Inactive Member
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Message 5 of 49 (148283)
10-08-2004 9:16 AM
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Reply to: Message 4 by JasonChin 10-08-2004 9:07 AM
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Re: The Divine Proportion: Does It Have a Materialistic Explaination?
How's that? BTW, I was aware of that past thread on Phi, but the thread was created as a statement and not really a question and, frankly, it wasn't even a well-stated statement. Therefore, people who didn't believe it just kind of made fun of it. I want this thread to be dedicated to people attempting to make a REAL argument against it.
This message is a reply to: | | Message 4 by JasonChin, posted 10-08-2004 9:07 AM | | JasonChin has not replied |
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JasonChin 
Inactive Member
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Message 11 of 49 (148609)
10-09-2004 4:31 AM
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Reply to: Message 8 by crashfrog 10-08-2004 12:08 PM
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It's funny that there's enough numbers in the universe that, if you look hard enough, you'll "find" the number that you're looking for, over and over again. Like, 42, or the Law of Fives:>> But Phi appears far more often than these numbers........and always in the same context, I.E. proportions.
This message is a reply to: | | Message 8 by crashfrog, posted 10-08-2004 12:08 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
Replies to this message: | | Message 14 by Rrhain, posted 10-09-2004 5:26 AM | | JasonChin has not replied | | Message 15 by crashfrog, posted 10-09-2004 12:36 PM | | JasonChin has not replied |
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JasonChin 
Inactive Member
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Message 12 of 49 (148610)
10-09-2004 4:38 AM
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Reply to: Message 9 by crashfrog 10-08-2004 12:26 PM
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Yeah. I just don't see the significance here. It's a natural result of the way living systems have to organize themselves, where each individual unit has no knowledge of the whole, only what's around itself.>> 1.618 etc. is a VERY specific number. You mean to tell me the human body wouldn't operate if the length of......uh.......whatever it was divided by whatever it was (it's late, brain no work good) was 1.619 instead of 1.618?
This message is a reply to: | | Message 9 by crashfrog, posted 10-08-2004 12:26 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
Replies to this message: | | Message 13 by PaulK, posted 10-09-2004 5:08 AM | | JasonChin has not replied | | Message 16 by crashfrog, posted 10-09-2004 12:38 PM | | JasonChin has replied |
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JasonChin 
Inactive Member
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Message 18 of 49 (148815)
10-10-2004 5:10 AM
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Reply to: Message 16 by crashfrog 10-09-2004 12:38 PM
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The thing about your human proportion argument is that humans aren't actualy proportioned that way.>> Are you saying that the length of the human body from the navel to the toes divided by whatever it was (or vice versa) doesn't equal Phi?
This message is a reply to: | | Message 16 by crashfrog, posted 10-09-2004 12:38 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
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JasonChin 
Inactive Member
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Message 29 of 49 (149266)
10-11-2004 11:09 PM
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Reply to: Message 19 by NosyNed 10-10-2004 11:18 AM
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Re: Not us
I'm pretty sure he is. (btw, remember the bees)>> I'd like to see proof that those claims aren't true. It sure ain't all humans with my 2 brothers and I as examples. We are all very differently proportioned. (only one of us is 'golden' ).>> Like I said, I need more proof than that.
This message is a reply to: | | Message 19 by NosyNed, posted 10-10-2004 11:18 AM | | NosyNed has replied |
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JasonChin 
Inactive Member
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Message 31 of 49 (149271)
10-11-2004 11:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 25 by Dr Jack 10-11-2004 6:12 AM
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Re: The Divine Proportion: Does It Have a Materialistic Explaination?
So... thus far we've established that half the things you say come to phi, don't. No we haven't. We've just had heresay and a few home-taken measurments. I need more proof than this. This message has been edited by JasonChin, 10-11-2004 10:16 PM
This message is a reply to: | | Message 25 by Dr Jack, posted 10-11-2004 6:12 AM | | Dr Jack has replied |
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JasonChin 
Inactive Member
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Re: Not us
Jason, are you passive-aggressive? Wow, you're quick......
This message is a reply to: | | Message 30 by AdminAsgara, posted 10-11-2004 11:14 PM | | AdminAsgara has not replied |
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JasonChin 
Inactive Member
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Message 35 of 49 (149278)
10-11-2004 11:22 PM
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Reply to: Message 34 by NosyNed 10-11-2004 11:19 PM
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Re: The Divine Proportion: Does It Have a Materialistic Explaination?
But it's not MY statement...........it's a statement from a number of "official" sources, going back to the Rennisance or earlier. Therefore, it's up to you to present official statements to the contrary.
This message is a reply to: | | Message 34 by NosyNed, posted 10-11-2004 11:19 PM | | NosyNed has replied |
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JasonChin 
Inactive Member
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Message 39 of 49 (149300)
10-12-2004 12:21 AM
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Reply to: Message 36 by crashfrog 10-11-2004 11:32 PM
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Again with the argument from authority. My arguments from authority beat your arguments from amaturity any day......especially when the authorities stretch back for hundreds or even thousands of years, with no refutation that anyone has mentioned. This message has been edited by JasonChin, 10-11-2004 11:22 PM
This message is a reply to: | | Message 36 by crashfrog, posted 10-11-2004 11:32 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
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JasonChin 
Inactive Member
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Message 40 of 49 (149303)
10-12-2004 12:24 AM
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Reply to: Message 38 by sidelined 10-12-2004 12:14 AM
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Sidelined
But those would still be amaturish calculations.
This message is a reply to: | | Message 38 by sidelined, posted 10-12-2004 12:14 AM | | sidelined has replied |
Replies to this message: | | Message 48 by sidelined, posted 10-12-2004 1:07 AM | | JasonChin has not replied |
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JasonChin 
Inactive Member
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Message 42 of 49 (149310)
10-12-2004 12:34 AM
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Reply to: Message 41 by NosyNed 10-12-2004 12:31 AM
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Re: Authority??
I am under the impression that there have been many authorities supporting the claim of the frequency with which Phi is found in nature, going back to the ancient greeks.
This message is a reply to: | | Message 41 by NosyNed, posted 10-12-2004 12:31 AM | | NosyNed has replied |
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