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Author | Topic: New Book: Kerry ‘Unfit for Command’ | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Chiroptera Inactive Member |
quote:Did I miss something?
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
[quote]No, I'm quite poor financially, thats why I'm voting for George, its called job creation,[quote]
But the job creation rate is the worst it has been in a very long time, and Bush's solution, the tax cut, was uneffective:
JobWatch
Greatest sustained job loss since the Great Depression Since the recession began 40 months ago in March 2001, 1.2 million jobs have disappeared, representing a 0.9% contraction. To put this performance in historical perspective, the Bureau of Labor Statistics began collecting monthly jobs data in 1939 (at the end of the Great Depression). In every previous episode of recession and job decline since 1939, the number of jobs had fully recovered to above the pre-recession peak within 31 months of the start of the recession. Today's labor market would have 6.2 million more jobs if employment had grown by the same 3.7% average that characterized the last three recession cycles. As for who has been hurt most, private-sector jobs have fared worse than public-sector jobs. Jobs in the private sector have dropped by 1.8 million since March 2001, representing a 1.6% contraction. Job growth stalls in last two months, underlining failure of tax cuts as job creation strategy Job growth has stalled in the last two months. Payroll jobs increased by only 78,000 in June and a meager 32,000 in July, after rising 295,000 a month the previous three months. The Bush Administration called the tax cut package, which was passed in May 2003 and took effect in July 2003, its "Jobs and Growth Plan." The president's economics staff, the Council of Economic Advisers (see background documents), projected that the plan would result in the creation of 5.5 million jobs by the end of 2004306,000 new jobs each month starting in July 2003. The CEA projected that the economy would generate 228,000 jobs a month without a tax cut and 306,000 jobs a month with the tax cut. Thus, it projected that 3,978,000 jobs would be created over the last 13 months. In reality, since the tax cuts took effect, there are 2,565,000 fewer jobs than the administration projected would be created by enactment of its tax cuts. quote: Whatever, did GWB begin his term in office with a deficit or a surplus? How big is the NATIONAL DEBT and TRADE DEFICIT now? Oh, and the reason California is in such trouble now was because the energy utility companies were deregulated by Pete Wilson, then the REPUBLICAN governor. Read more about it here (not that you will): Page not found | The Nation You haven't answered my questions regarding Bush's actions im prederving our rights. Please do so: Whatever, is it more easy or less easy for the government to wiretap your phones without probable cause before GWB was president or after? Did the government have the right to detain you indefinitely without due process before GWB was president or after? Did the government have the right to arrest you for reading certain books before GWB was president or after?
quote: quote:MSN | Outlook, Office, Skype, Bing, Breaking News, and Latest Videos Since 2001, President Bush's tax cuts have shifted federal tax payments from the richest Americans to a wide swath of middle-class families, the Congressional Budget Office has found, a conclusion likely to roil the presidential election campaign. The CBO study, due to be released today, found that the wealthiest 20 percent, whose incomes averaged $182,700 in 2001, saw their share of federal taxes drop from 64.4 percent of total tax payments in 2001 to 63.5 percent this year. The top 1 percent, earning $1.1 million, saw their share fall to 20.1 percent of the total, from 22.2 percent. Over that same period, taxpayers with incomes from around $51,500 to around $75,600 saw their share of federal tax payments increase. Households earning around $75,600 saw their tax burden jump the most, from 18.7 percent of all taxes to 19.5 percent. Are you a millionaire, or do you not mind paying more of the tax burden while wealty people pay less of the tax burden?
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
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Trump won  Suspended Member (Idle past 1269 days) Posts: 1928 Joined: |
Opinion | Not a Hooverville in Sight - The New York Times
Schraf, this man refutes your source. He's the chairman of President Bush's Council of Economic Advisers. The NY times printed his piece so I think it's worth a look. [edit]Unless you're a member you might not be able to see it so I think I'll have to post the article:
quote: This message has been edited by messenjaH of oNe, 08-29-2004 10:34 AM This message has been edited by messenjaH of oNe, 08-29-2004 10:34 AM This message has been edited by messenjaH of oNe, 08-29-2004 10:35 AM peace
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1496 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
In 1933, in the middle of the Great Depression, the unemployment rate peaked at 25 percent. Now it is 5.5 percent, having fallen from 6.3 percent in June 2003. Today's unemployment rate is exactly the same as it was eight years ago, when Ms. Tyson's boss was running for re-election. What he doesn't mention is that, of the new jobs since June 2003, two-thirds of them are jobs that offer few or no benefits, no health insurance, are often part-time, and offer a wage considerably below that the employee earned some years ago. It's not sufficient that one be employed at a McJob. One needs health insurance and a wage big enough to feed one's family.
Again, a baseless claim. Well, I guess it would be, unless you consider statistics from independant economic think tanks to be generally valid, like I do.
The truth is that there are no data on the characteristics of the new jobs, only data on employment by very broad industry or occupation categories. Oh, right. Since according to this jackass, we have no idea if these new jobs suck, we're just supposed to assume that everything is awesome and vote for Bush.
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Trump won  Suspended Member (Idle past 1269 days) Posts: 1928 Joined: |
I think it's a fair critique, it offers a different opinion than the person that schraf posted from so I thought I'd let whatever in on it.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1496 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
I think it's a fair critique I have a different opinion. I think it's a desperate attempt to spin the figures from a man trying to get his boss re-elected. If this sort of reasoning - "we don't know things are bad, so they must be great, vote Bush" - exemplifies the level of economic expertise in the Bush administration, no wonder we're all screwed. You're free to disagree, though. Just keep in mind this analysis from the Bureau of Census:
quote: Jesus, kids living in poverty. We're the richest nation on Earth and we suck so bad at looking out for our neighboors that more kids are living in poverty than ever before. Grrr! This message has been edited by crashfrog, 08-29-2004 12:33 PM
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1496 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
No, I'm quite poor financially, thats why I'm voting for George, its called job creation, If you look at the last couple of decades, no Republican president - including W - has ever created as many jobs as the least effective Democrat, which was Carter, I believe. If it's job creation you want - and who doesn't? - go with the numbers. Vote Democratic.
the people cheered cause of the democrats being the reason for their high utility costs Actually, that was due to Republican-led de-regulation and a lack of oversight that allowed companies like Enron to establish fraudulent "shortages" to price-gouge.
we don't need a democratic presidency to raise taxes and increase America bankruptcy, etc... So you say, but you seem to ignore that Bush is going to wind up causing significant budget overruns in the next few years - hell, he has already. Remember fiscal responsibility? Yeah, I'm for it too. That's why I'm voting for Kerry.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
HTTP 429
have a website debunking the bush lies and misrepresentations as well as the SBVs. people interested in truth without party propoganda are choosing Kerry. enjoy. we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}} |
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
ahhh the old claim victory and run away dance.
I don't think I have ever run across anyone more impervious to reality. the only rational explanation is intentional troll behavior, but that also leaves open many irrational explanations .... anyone not up on what trolls are in internet lingo, the following is from internet sources on this subject: Definitions:webopedia definition (hyperlinked new) troll - (v.) (1) To deliberately post derogatory or inflammatory comments to a community forum, chat room, newsgroup and/or a blog in order to bait other users into responding. (2) To surf the Internet. (3) To hang around a chat room reading the posts instead of contributing to the chat. (n.) One who performs any of the above actions. The last two I believe are falling into disuse, while the first one is becoming the predominant issue. Note the above does not address the issue using names to impersonate other posters (a problem on boards that are not monitored) - particularly by the "type (1) trolls" Anyone new to the issue or unfamiliar with the full extent of the problem should read the full article ("Approximate Reading Time: 7 Minutes") - Note, I have experienced everything this article says about troll behavior on another site. instructive. we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
maybe a new avatar is in order ... (oo000 feels better now ... ) This message has been edited by RAZD, 08-29-2004 02:37 PM we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
The main problem with unemployment figures is that after 26 weeks you are no longer unemployed whether you have a job or not. Ever rational person who has studied the problem knows this, but the numbers keep being touted as if they mean something.
Thus for "unemployment" numbers to go down a drop in firing of people will suffice without any hiring during the period. The fact that shrubby's grubby economy has been notable for large numbers of plant closing and major layoffs as well as the closing of many small and medium sized stores shows that this trend has about hit the point of the curve that percentage drops will be smaller and thus will naturally produce low "unemployment" numbers. As you note the numbers increase in poverty and lost coverage show the lie to these numbers. If you want to measure true economic health for the nation as a whole, the real issue is what is the percentage of americans making above poverty wages or being supported above poverty levels by a family provider. Ask the right question to get the right answer. enjoy. we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
It's always worth reading other viewpoints, it's true, but please realize that the site I used for the job figures is one that is focused on jobs, not a partisan group.
IOW, if the republicans were creating lots of great jobs, they would say so. Crashfrog's analysis is right on. The tax cut figures are from the GAO, also non-partisan.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
From http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0829-06.htm
Growing Number of Americans Think Bush Campaign Is Behind Ads Attacking Kerry's War Record by Will Lester NEW YORK - Americans increasingly believe President Bush's re-election campaign is behind the ads attacking Democrat John Kerry's Vietnam experience, a poll found. Almost half in a poll taken this week say they think the president's campaign is behind the ads that try to undercut Kerry's medals for heroism while just over a third think the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth is an independent group, the National Annenberg Election Survey found. The Swift boat ads, which ran in three swing states earlier this month, challenged Kerry's wartime service in Vietnam for which he received five medals. The public's belief that Kerry did not earn his medals grew to 30 percent when the attack ads got widespread publicity on cable news networks. But that number has dropped to 24 percent now. Kerry's campaign has accused President Bush of involvement in the ad campaign, a charge that was stepped up after Bush campaign counsel Benjamin Ginsberg acknowledged he was advising the group and resigned Wednesday from the Bush campaign. In polling from Monday through Thursday, 46 percent said they believed the Bush campaign was behind the ads and 37 percent said they thought the ads were done independently. The president and his campaign staff have said repeatedly they have no connection to the ads, which have come under increasing criticism as Navy records and additional witnesses backed Kerry's version of events. On Monday and Tuesday when the Kerry campaign was making the accusation Bush was involved, 42 percent said the Bush campaign was behind them and 41 percent said they were truly independent. After Ginsberg resigned from the campaign on Wednesday, 50 percent said in polling the next two nights that the Bush campaign was connected to the ads and 34 percent said it was not. Ginsberg and lawyers on the Democratic side have represented both the campaigns or party and outside groups running ads in the presidential race. The poll of 1,244 adults was taken Aug. 23-28 and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points. The stack of cards is trembling. Perhaps the fact that the same "independent" group running dishonest attack ads for the Bush family in five elections is a litle too much for the American public to swallow ... we can hope.
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Hangdawg13 Member (Idle past 781 days) Posts: 1189 From: Texas Joined: |
I read in the times that Bush agrees that Kerry did not lie about his war record. Is Bush wrong? Well, that depends on whether or not Kerry lied about his war record... I think Bush did the honorable thing. There's no way to know %100 for sure what happened back then and its stupid to get mired into this pointless debate. I think Bush has gained a consistent respect for everyone who volunteers to serve no matter what the details are surrounding their service, so naturally he would not want to quibble about these things. I think he also now realizes how easy he had it back in the national guard and feels greatly indebted to all service-men and women. I think Kerry's campaign thought bringing up Kerry's swift boat service would send the message that Kerry can handle a war, but I think they lacked a lot of insight in realizing the controversy it would stir and the ways it would backfire. Now they're forced to busy themselves digging up 30 years of dirt on anyone who formally challenges Kerry's service and perpetuating this meaningless debate.
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