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Author Topic:   "The Exodus Revealed" Video II
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 352 of 603 (132176)
08-09-2004 11:52 PM
Reply to: Message 351 by Eta_Carinae
08-09-2004 11:45 PM


Re: I've noticed you avoid it but once more:
Suppose it was only the musings of a Patent Clerk or Monk?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 351 by Eta_Carinae, posted 08-09-2004 11:45 PM Eta_Carinae has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 374 of 603 (132387)
08-10-2004 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 372 by Yaro
08-10-2004 2:10 PM


Re: APROACHING 400! Posts
Well, there was nothing in Video I, so far nothing in Video II.
Maybe it's about time to put this to bed for good.
Them what believe in the video will continue to do so.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 372 by Yaro, posted 08-10-2004 2:10 PM Yaro has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 375 by CK, posted 08-10-2004 2:35 PM jar has not replied
 Message 376 by Yaro, posted 08-10-2004 2:37 PM jar has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 438 of 603 (133039)
08-11-2004 9:33 PM
Reply to: Message 437 by NosyNed
08-11-2004 9:30 PM


Re: E v i d e n c e .
The one thing they have close to evidence for are the glyphs. They do have photos of them and also in context. But they don't seem to want to deal with that part for some reason.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 437 by NosyNed, posted 08-11-2004 9:30 PM NosyNed has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 449 of 603 (133176)
08-12-2004 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 448 by Hydarnes
08-12-2004 11:11 AM


Re: E v i d e n c e .
Question:
Gold is soft, correct?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 448 by Hydarnes, posted 08-12-2004 11:11 AM Hydarnes has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 450 of 603 (133178)
08-12-2004 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 448 by Hydarnes
08-12-2004 11:11 AM


Re: E v i d e n c e .
quote:5) Examples of similarly split rocks from other places have been provided. You have yet to explain what is so special about this one.
But where is the other evidence in those alleged "locations" that would ratify it as a candidate site for the event?
The issue has nothing to do with location. The other examples showed that the alleged split rock is similar to many examples of naturally eroded rock. Since there is no reason to imagine that it is not just normal erroision, there is no reason to imagine some miraculous event.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 454 of 603 (133185)
08-12-2004 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 451 by PaulK
08-12-2004 11:21 AM


Re: E v i d e n c e .
PaulK asked:
And since you dismiss what I've found in your doubtless superior knowledge perhaps you can tell me when the use of iron became widespread in Ancient Egypt.
JMHO & YMMV but an even better question might be, "When did iron become so common that it could be used for purely utilitarian purposes"?
At the time in question, Iron was probably more valuable than Gold. In fact, an iron knife was valuable enough to be considered a worthy gift for a Pharoah.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 451 by PaulK, posted 08-12-2004 11:21 AM PaulK has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 458 of 603 (133192)
08-12-2004 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 448 by Hydarnes
08-12-2004 11:11 AM


Re: E v i d e n c e .
But we have bovine petroglyphs etched into the side of a large altar-like structure.
Let's examine that statement.
First, here are the rock drawings that TTBOMK, are the ones in question.
First, there are also drawings of people, hunting, antelope like creatures and phallic symbols, something similar to dogs or cats, a very definite Ibex like critter and other markings. Note the variety of distinctive horns on the drawings and that none of them show a classic bovine horn.
There is not one rendition of anthing that resembles a calf.
Second, these in style and method are far more like all of the other rock drawings from all over North Africa and Arabia sating from around 3000 BCE, about 1500 years before your alleged dating for the Exodus.
For the drawings to be evidence you must show they are not simply rock drawings from an earlier edge. In addition, you need to explain why drawings of other creatures, people and markings would be placed on an altar alleged to be dedicated to worship of calves.
And here is a drawing from a diferent location in Saudi Arabia dated to approximately 2400 BCE for comparison.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 448 by Hydarnes, posted 08-12-2004 11:11 AM Hydarnes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 475 by Lysimachus, posted 08-12-2004 1:39 PM jar has replied
 Message 483 by Amlodhi, posted 08-12-2004 1:55 PM jar has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 512 of 603 (133330)
08-12-2004 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 475 by Lysimachus
08-12-2004 1:39 PM


Re: E v i d e n c e .
First of all, the images you posted are clearly "the biased" ones.
The problem is that once again, you do not understand evidence. Let me try to explain. The images that I included are from those you (supporters of the validity of the Exodus Video have published). They are from the group that show things in context.
In response you pull out some pictures taken out of context. You intentionally smudge out the drawings around the ones of interest to you. Frankly, that is not how evidence is gathered but rather refered to as suppressing evidence.
The image that you include happens to be one that I also included. In the three pictures I posted, the top two are closeups of sections of the rock while the third was a shot of the rock itself. The image you posted is located on the lower right quadrant of the rock in picture three.
What you call a clear image of an individual holding the bull, has been doctored, modified. If you will look at the original you will see that there is more to the human figure that was brushed out to make it look like only one drawing when on the rock itself you can see it is part of a montage. There are also human figures immediately behind the critter, an antelope type critter, a camel near the top, an Ibex like crtter in front of the bull and an extention, most likely phallic in nature attached to the human you say is holding up the bull.
You refute my post by a classic attempt to misdirect attention, smoke and mirrors. If that was intentional it is dishonest and if it is not intentional, then I fear you are incapable of ever understanding how knowledge is aquired.
I might also remind you that the Saudi Archaeologist that investigated this area stated CLEARLY that "these are DISTINCTLY Egyptian and these engraving exist no other place in Saudi Arabia"--yes, that is just what they said. And guess what jar? They know more about their country than YOU! So who should I trust? You who is looking at pictures? or the Saudi Archaeologists who clearly said this?
Again, this is mere assertion and an appeal to authority. Since I posted similar drawings from other areas, that statement too must be questioned. You folk have never documented what this unnamed Saudi Archaeologists was or the statement.
In addition, there is almost no similarities. There is an absolute difference in style, technique and sophistication between rock art from 3000 BCE and the Egyptian art of 1400 BCE. I have posted pictures to show that difference but you can also see it in the example that you used.
Hunting antelope my footsie. We are talking about a MIXED culture here! These are HEBREWS who made the Inscriptions who have EGYPTIAN INFLUENCE! The people were in a frenzy...other people were probably having fun adding to these engravings. Whether they are hunting or not bears no merit...did not the Israelites have to hunt in these areas to stay alive?
First, you claim it is an ALTAR. An altar dedicated to the sacrifice and worship of calves. If so, you would find only drawings of calves. That is not the case.
And no, the fleeing folk found food from heaven. It was called Mana.
I stand by my description and frankly, not only do you have no evidence, you have once again shown that the supporters of the video are willing to cheat and lie, to modify evidence to support their commercial venture.
Here is your example.
and here it is in context.
And again without the arrow so that all of the rock drawings can be seen.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 475 by Lysimachus, posted 08-12-2004 1:39 PM Lysimachus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 513 by CK, posted 08-12-2004 5:13 PM jar has not replied
 Message 528 by Lysimachus, posted 08-12-2004 9:21 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 518 of 603 (133350)
08-12-2004 5:59 PM


TO Admin.
We are getting near the limit on this thread. is there any hope that anything can be resolved or is it time to just kill this nonsense?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 524 of 603 (133393)
08-12-2004 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 522 by Lysimachus
08-12-2004 8:44 PM


Re: E v i d e n c e .
Watch is sketches on the video clip-
Sketches are not evidence.
Also, the "table like structure" is clearly an axel with 2 chariot wheels on either end.
Actually, no it's not. The table like structure is not an unusual coral formation at all. Here is another photo of a similar coral formation.
We have already shown using your own posts that the folk in the video are more than willing to not only surpress evidence but to actually modify it and falsify it.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 522 by Lysimachus, posted 08-12-2004 8:44 PM Lysimachus has not replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 531 of 603 (133405)
08-12-2004 9:39 PM
Reply to: Message 528 by Lysimachus
08-12-2004 9:21 PM


Re: E v i d e n c e .
Lys.
Let's leave it here. You have valiantly tried to defend your position. I and others have presented our reasons for believing that the Video, Ron Wyatt, Moller and all involved in the video, findings, claims, museums, books and talks are frauds, crooks, liars and totally unethical. Let the readers examine the two positions and they can decide on their own.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 528 by Lysimachus, posted 08-12-2004 9:21 PM Lysimachus has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 547 of 603 (133438)
08-12-2004 11:00 PM
Reply to: Message 542 by Lysimachus
08-12-2004 10:22 PM


Re: Put up or shut up
Try to think how frustrating it might be if you were trying to prove something,
And that is your problem.
You are trying to prove something.

You are trying to prove something.
That is not the way science works.

You are working on the same false premise that Creationists use.
You have already defined your conclusion.
Conclusion first.
Then you find, manufacture, modify, create, manipulate evidence to fit your conclusion.
That is not science.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 542 by Lysimachus, posted 08-12-2004 10:22 PM Lysimachus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 554 by Buzsaw, posted 08-13-2004 1:56 AM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 583 of 603 (133551)
08-13-2004 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 554 by Buzsaw
08-13-2004 1:56 AM


Re: Put up or shut up
You still don't understand.
C'mon give us a break and for once allow us the same leeway secularistic science uses in their pet hypotheses and theories.
We will gladly give you exactly the same leeway.
To support your hypothosis you need to:
  1. produce evidence that there were any Hebrews in Egypt to leave.
  2. produce evidence that there was a mass migration of anykind out of Egypt.
  3. produce evidence Egypt ever lost a Pharoah in battle.
  4. produce evidence the wheels or chariots exist.
  5. produce records showing Egypt had to suddenly replace all their horses and cattle.
  6. produce evidence the pile of rocks is an altar.
  7. produce evidence the blackened moutain is not natural.
  8. produce evidence the split rock is not natural.
  9. produce evidence that the rock drawings are not simply more of the same type rock drawings found all over North Africa and Arabia and dating from a 1000 years or more before the asserted Exodus.
  10. explain why the producers and proponents of the video have shown that they are willing to disregard conflicting evidence, and to suppress evidence.
  11. disregard all evidence where the producers assert that have corroboration, yet fail to produce it.
  12. provide evidence to show the land bridge exists and stop using interpolated data to make claims (gradient) not backed up by data.
  13. address the issues of the timing of the entrance into Palestine or the question of how Joshua conquered abandoned towns.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 554 by Buzsaw, posted 08-13-2004 1:56 AM Buzsaw has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 584 of 603 (133553)
08-13-2004 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 551 by Buzsaw
08-13-2004 1:42 AM


Re: Frustrating
And if I read right, one un-named archeologist, an Arab, likely Muslim who knows full well that to work with Christians, it might be good for his physical welfare for him to remain anonymous.
More silly crap and bullshit.
MOSES is one of the Prophets of ISLAM. Ask any Imam.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 551 by Buzsaw, posted 08-13-2004 1:42 AM Buzsaw has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 594 of 603 (133564)
08-13-2004 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 592 by Buzsaw
08-13-2004 11:52 AM


More smoke and mirrors, the old shell game again.
Er, I think I just read some of your late complaints about personal attacks. Tell it to Solomon Rushdie and consider the poor unfortunates in Pakistan who loose their life or are imprisoned without trial for years for being critical the prophet.
That is one stupid statement Buz.
One more time.
Moses and the Exodus are as much a part of Islamic Tradition as it is of Christian or Jewish. Moses is one of the Islamic Prophets.
Why, when challenged and soundly refuted do you folk think changing the subject will help support your case?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 592 by Buzsaw, posted 08-13-2004 11:52 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 597 by Hydarnes, posted 08-13-2004 11:59 AM jar has replied

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