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Author Topic:   Alas, poor Ohio .... EvC related news
contracycle
Inactive Member


Message 140 of 179 (117432)
06-22-2004 6:32 AM
Reply to: Message 139 by DarkStar
06-21-2004 2:22 PM


Re: Evolving Views
quote:
Obstinate behaviour and attitude will get you nowhere with me. Are you suggesting that you see no patterns in nature? Are you suggesting that you see absolutely no evidence of design in the universe? No designs anywhere that are intelligent in their construct?
I can safely say, none whatsoever. I find the idea that the universe is a "designed" phenomoenon quite perplexing - what is it that makes you think it IS designed, and why? Why would anyone think that?
quote:
Are the orbits of the planets in our solar system an example of a working design or do they make abrupt and random changes, resulting in the deterioration and instability of life on our planet?
Thats nuts; why wouldn't they? Design is not required for orbits to be stable.
This message has been edited by contracycle, 06-22-2004 05:33 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by DarkStar, posted 06-21-2004 2:22 PM DarkStar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by DarkStar, posted 06-22-2004 11:39 AM contracycle has replied

  
contracycle
Inactive Member


Message 142 of 179 (117504)
06-22-2004 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by DarkStar
06-22-2004 11:39 AM


Re: Evolving Views
quote:
I think the more important question here is why would you so close your mind to other possibilities that you would not consider it a probability, however remote?
Because there is not the slightest reason to go that direction.
As I said, I see no evidence of design in nature, none whatsoever. Thats just how I experience it. As you said, we are only talking about the appearance of design... where is it?
quote:
So then, is it your understanding that the distance between the planets, their moon(s), and the sun is irrelevant to the stability of orbits?
No, they directly relevant. But, what has that got to do with DESIGN?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by DarkStar, posted 06-22-2004 11:39 AM DarkStar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by DarkStar, posted 06-22-2004 9:25 PM contracycle has replied

  
contracycle
Inactive Member


Message 147 of 179 (117805)
06-23-2004 4:53 AM
Reply to: Message 144 by DarkStar
06-22-2004 9:25 PM


Re: Evolving Views
quote:
DarkStar replies:
The arrangement... of the planets in their orbits is central to the existance of life on this planet.
So what? Please note I have elided the word design from your sentence, as it is not equivalent to "arrangement".
quote:
You may then ask, "how do you know it is by design?", to which I would have to reply, I do not claim that it is "by" design, only that it "is" a design.
Well, how is that a meaningful statement? Does that mean I can refer to a heap of unwashed clothes on the floor as "a design"? How about a pile of leaves? Furthermore, without asserting that these arrangemensts are BY design the argument makes no sense; a "design", when so broadly defined, does not require a "designer".
quote:
Evidence of an order necessary for our existance. Can you state emphatically that it is not a design? What evidence can you offer to support your position?
Yes, I can.
quote:
design ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-zn)
v. designed, designing, designs
v. tr.
To conceive or fashion in the mind; invent: design a good excuse for not attending the conference.
To formulate a plan for; devise: designed a marketing strategy for the new product.
To plan out in systematic, usually graphic form: design a building; design a computer program.
To create or contrive for a particular purpose or effect: a game designed to appeal to all ages.
To have as a goal or purpose; intend.
To create or execute in an artistic or highly skilled manner.
You will note that ALL of these clarifications require deliberate decision making and forethought by a living, intelligent being. Every one of them describes a mental process that prepares for physical action; that is what the term denotes.
There is no evidence of a mental process, of an intent, in the arranegement of the planets. Thus, there is absolutely no evidence of design, and therefore, of a designer.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by DarkStar, posted 06-22-2004 9:25 PM DarkStar has not replied

  
contracycle
Inactive Member


Message 151 of 179 (119439)
06-28-2004 7:10 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by DarkStar
06-27-2004 10:01 PM


Re: Somewhere Beyond Logic and Reason...........
quote:
Please provide for me all the evidence available to you that nothing within the vastness of the entire universe shows any sign of design and/or intelligent design.
Well thats easy. I just look around; nothing seems very designed. If you claim that these things ARE designed, it is for YOU to demonstrate that this is true.
quote:
Also include all evidence at your disposal that shows this intelligent designer you keep talking about could not possibly exist
I don't need a designer until such time as I have a design that needs to be explained. Have you got one?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by DarkStar, posted 06-27-2004 10:01 PM DarkStar has not replied

  
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