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Author | Topic: What is a True Christian? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
IrishRockhound Member (Idle past 4467 days) Posts: 569 From: Ireland Joined: |
This has come up again and again, and always in the same pattern - if someone disagrees with creationism or another fundamentalist position, then they are not 'true Christians'. Here's a small example from the Religious Rights thread, from Willowtree:
quote:quote: I'm tired of hearing this kind of crap. I have lived in a Catholic country all my life (I WAS one up to the age of 14), and yet I don't know what a 'true Christian' is. Considering WT's recent behaviour in the same thread, I contend that they are not worthy of the same title on the basis that they preach a message totally in conflict to the message of Christ. I know exactly what his message is - I learned it in my youth and I keep getting reminded by other Christians on the boards (thank you Buz) - and as far as I know his MESSAGE is important, not the words of the bible. Unless, of course, you worship a book and not God. So, I wish to know what exactly a true Christian is, according to the Christians on this board. I also want to know if WT fits any of the descriptions, given that their posts on the other threads seem to consist of nothing but hate filled ranting. If the Admin won't allow this topic I'll gladly remove all mention of WT and we can discuss what is a true Christian alone. The Rock Hound
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IrishRockhound Member (Idle past 4467 days) Posts: 569 From: Ireland Joined: |
I'm sorry about the late reply; I was sick over the last few days...
Ok. As requested, this topic will discuss the definition of a 'true Christian' and nothing else. If the Admin wants to, they cam remove all reference to WillowTree in the title (although I would ask that they leave the original post as it is). The general idea seems to be that, for Christian fundamentalists, anyone who does not agree with their interpretation of the bible or creationism is 'not a true Christian'. This has come up in several threads, usually in relation to theistic evolutionists. In order to clarify for everyone interested, I believe that some kind of definition would be helpful (and could possibly prevent inadvertant insults). So, some questions to start with: What is actually necessary to be a true Christian?- belief in bible inerrancy? - belief in creationism? - regular Church-going habits? - regular prayer? - use of the bible as a moral guide? - belief in the core message of Jesus Christ? Who gets to decide who is and who isn't, and how relevent is their opinion? - the Pope?- Christian fundamentalists? - majority decision by ordinary Christians? - just the person in question? - non-Christians who are familiar with Christians? Of course, this leads to the question of whether someone who decides to go on a killing spree for God after reading the Old Testament is a 'true Christian'. Any more elaboration needed? The Rock Hound
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IrishRockhound Member (Idle past 4467 days) Posts: 569 From: Ireland Joined: |
So are they both tue Christians or what? How much does a Christian have to believe the bible before they are considered a true Christian? Do they have to only believe in the bible, or actually follow all or some of its teachings?
This is a desperately vague subject - I've seen fundies throw around the definition lightly without having it explained properly. What can we all agree is absolutely necessary to be a true Christian? The general consensus is that only a belief in Jesus is necessary - which of course makes Hitler and any number of other madmen 'true' Christians. Anyway this topic naturally leads to this question - if someone displays characteristics that are inconsistant with our definition, are they not true Christians, and are we allowed to call them as such? The Rock Hound
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IrishRockhound Member (Idle past 4467 days) Posts: 569 From: Ireland Joined: |
I'm sorry I took so long to get back to this but you guys post so much in only a day or so... I'd like to respond to one of WillowTree's earlier posts, but seeing as the topic has moved on since then, I'll include it in this response instead.
quote: This was in no way directed at you personally. I post on another forum of the same vein as EvC, and I have seen this pattern there a few times now. I was merely speaking from experience.
quote: I was expressing my opinion. Surely I am allowed to do this? I read your posts and, in my opinion, the views you expressed were distinctly intolerant and hateful towards non-Christians. As I am a non-Christian, I decided to point this out. Also, as the basic principle of the teachings of Christ is to love rather than hate, I concluded that you were not truly following those teachings, and stated as such
quote: WT, as a non-Christian, I don't know and don't care about the Sermon on the Mount. So saying that I believe anything about it is largely irrelevent.
quote: Again, irrelevent to a non-Christian.
quote: I simply stated that Christ taught to love rather than hate, the whole "love thy neighbour" thing. Am I wrong? Is that not the basic message? Christians like you tell me that it is all the time, usually when trying to convert me.
quote: Irrelevent.
quote: That is, of course, your opinion. As it is off-topic I will refrain from commenting.
quote: I never said that; please do not misrepresent me. My post was entirely in reference to you, if I remember correctly.
quote: Also irrelevent to a non-Christian.
quote: Then you will not care what I think of you. I should probably point out that insults and cursing are not very Christian-like either. (I was a Catholic once, so I do remember something about how it goes.) Anyway, on to the actual topic...
quote: Here we are in agreement - I also think that fundamentalist Christians misrepresent the message of the New Testament. I sometimes feel that they missed the point of it all, but mostly they just scare me. The Rock Hound
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IrishRockhound Member (Idle past 4467 days) Posts: 569 From: Ireland Joined: |
RiverRat, please don't get into the whole 'revealed truth' thing here - we'll be debating for years if we do. What if the truth was revealed to someone, but they decided that it was from something other than god? What if the truth was revealed to someone, and they thought it was a pack of lies?
The problem with that is that it's too subjective to be useful in a definition. However, 'reading the bible to find out what a true Christian is' may be more useful - are there any passages in particular you could point us at? The Rock Hound
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IrishRockhound Member (Idle past 4467 days) Posts: 569 From: Ireland Joined: |
Hmm... Ok then. I declare the first requirement of a 'true' Christian to be this:
A belief in Jesus Christ as the divine Messiah. That sound good to everyone? Now, do we need any other more specific requirements? (BTW thanks for the feedback RiverRat)
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IrishRockhound Member (Idle past 4467 days) Posts: 569 From: Ireland Joined: |
Er... no. That's not entirely correct. Unseul is actually right in his description - you seem to be presenting the conventional Christian view of Satanism.
From religioustolerance.org:
quote: Specifically from fundie Christians:
quote: Satanism is no more evil or twisted than any other alternative religion - except it tends to get really terrible PR.
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IrishRockhound Member (Idle past 4467 days) Posts: 569 From: Ireland Joined: |
quote: Well, it serves as a starting point at least. Of course, this does not naturally mean that someone shows 'Christian-like' behaviour. So, to be a true Christian, you must not only believe in Christ as the divine Messiah; a certain standard of behaviour is also required. Otherwise Hitler and other madmen of his caliber can be called true Christians. What standard of behaviour must be adhered to? The Rock Hound
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IrishRockhound Member (Idle past 4467 days) Posts: 569 From: Ireland Joined: |
Gilgamesh, RiverRat - let's try to stay on topic here. If you want to discuss religious beliefs I'm sure the Admin will open another thread for you.
I really think we need to get this resolved. We are limited to two choices - not using the term 'true Christian' because it's so vague (not likely), or settling on a definition that is in some way consistent.
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IrishRockhound Member (Idle past 4467 days) Posts: 569 From: Ireland Joined: |
RiverRat, I'm not a Christian and I don't own a bible, so quoting verses at me is just a little pointless.
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