Please give me so-called "proof" of Jesus or God.

It has little to do with Religion, lots to do with economics and philosophy.When you begin with the concept that you already have the answer you preclude the question.Let me know when you are ready to discuss why your topic is actually the wrong question.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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For the Moon Landing we have photographs, TV, physical evidence, thousands of eye-witness reports from people wo are still alive..

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Actually there is a debate here - check the internet. The 'supposed photographs' do not match some of the *Real* photographs taken by other satelites etc.
check out http://www.redzero.demon.co.uk/moonhoax/Please do no associate me with this charge anyway.. I am just saying you CAN NEVER BE SURE OF ANY HISTORICAL EVENT .. period.
Personally, I doubt anything that the mainstream media tries to push down people's throats...basically I keep an open mind about it..ON the Jesus thing.. Are you telling me there was no man named Jesus at that time who was crucified for his beliefs/teachings? That would be strange because Christians, Muslims and Jews believe he existed..How can you disprove all the texts? It is a ridiculous charge ...
Perhaps, someone should do a point by point proof and then you can refute it...
e.g
The Gospels (are to some extent historical)
Other religous texts.
Other texts from non-religous sources..Good luck proving he never existed ...

SkepticToAll So because enough people believe something makes it so. Many children in the world believe a right jolly old elf flies to all the children's homes in the world and delivers presents once a year. So because of this we are to assume they are right?As for the texts can you give a source outside of the bible that backs up the claims of Jesus' existence? Where are the other religious texts.The texts from non-religious sources.The onus is on the people making the claim to prove their claim not for others to disprove it.This message has been edited by sidelined, 07-08-2004 11:44 PM

Jar when are you going to drop your bombshell about why you believe? You promised us you'd give it and it must be very interesting. I'm ready to hear it!

There's no debate. The incontrovertable proof that we went to the Moon is the fact that one of the Apollo missions left a box reflector that any university research laser/maser lab can "ping". If you really had an "open mind", you'd have known about the box reflector thing. I suspect you're simply one of those dudes that likes to tweak people by "questioning everything."Having an open mind doesn't mean you can't close your mind to falsehood. That's called "discernment" and it's a requirement for a rational mind. You can't simply "doubt" everything, because then you know nothing. At some point you have to reject falsehood in order to know anything at all. Plenty of people think Walt Disney's body is frozen in carbonite, like Han Solo. That people believe it has nothing to do with the veracity of that claim. To my knowledge, the last two are based entirely on the first (to make a hasty generalization.) As for the Gospels, not one of them was written closer than 40-80 years after the events they claim to chronicle, and none of them were written by eyewitnesses.So, essentially, we have some claims by someone who wasn't there to see them happen, and every other "corraborating" record is in fact based on that original claim.

I would hope that you are really like that. But it seems you have deciced to hate me just because I am a Christian, and I do not agree with being gay, even though I accept the person who is gay. That would be predjudice on your part.Do you hate me?

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If you really had an "open mind", you'd have known about the box reflector thing. I suspect you're simply one of those dudes that likes to tweak people by "questioning everything

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First of all, I never told you that I believed in the hoax.
I have not done enough research to disprove OR prove the moon landing.. I can just take the pictures/ the media and 'your' word for granted for now.
So it has nothing to do with 'open' mind.

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Having an open mind doesn't mean you can't close your mind to falsehood. That's called "discernment" and it's a requirement for a rational mind. You can't simply "doubt" everything, because then you know nothing. At some point you have to reject falsehood in order to know anything at all.

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You cannot discern what is falsehood that easily. Even a scientific theory can be proven to be false. And, just because you question everything doesn't mean you know nothing.
Perhaps, you accept things without question - I don't .. Especially when it is political ...

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To my knowledge,

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You would be quite the fool to conclude that Jesus does not exist without doing any research..

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That people believe it has nothing to do with the veracity of that claim.

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Its not just that a lot of people believe...His words are an inspiration to many long after his death, but then this is something you can never understand ...... The truth sets some free but it drives many mad ...

SkepticToAll A scientific theory must be capable of being proven false.All knowledge is subject to revision as new information comes to light. Ok we shall take this one step at a time.Do you know of any records of a man called Jesus Christ that were registered in any medium during His lifetime? The Bible does not count since 1} the works were put together long after the supposed existence of Jesus and 2} the bible has a need for the story of Christ to be true and therefore is suspect.Take your time, as I am patient.

It gets worse, actually. As it turns out, you can't actually know anything at all.The fundamental truth of the universe is not accessable to us. The best we can ever do is make what observations we can and develop mental models ("theories") that explain as many phenomena as possible. We test them to the best of our ability and, to be as sure as we can that they aren't simply the product of hallucination, we tell other people and see if they get the same results. If they do, we accept our models tentatively, always ready to throw them out and start over in the face of a new observation.In other words we apply the scientific method, which is the best and only way to really come to any kind of conclusion about the universe. That's having an open mind; coming to tentative conclusions but still willing to revisit them in the face of additional, possibly disconfirming observation. Lord, no. Never. But once I've asked the question, I seek an answer. And when I get that answer, I accept it tentatively, which means there's no need to ask the question again until there's something new and relevant.But folks like you, you just ask the question over and over again, because a tentative conclusion isn't good enough, I suppose. The problem for you is that all conclusions must necessarily be tentative until we've made every possible observation that could ever be made. I wouldn't hold your breath for that outcome. Well, since I haven't made that conclusion, who are you calling "fool"?At any rate, the research has been done and presented to my satisfaction. Unless you have some evidence I haven't seen before I'm comfortable that my tentative conclusion - the Jesus is the Bible is a fictional account of a very real man - is the most accurate conclusion at this time. Well, since I was a Christian, I understand all too well. But inspiring words prove nothing except that the speaker is an inspiring speaker.

I hate what you represent. Please do not ask me to explain. People with stinky breaths don't know they have stinky breaths until they are told by other people they have stinky breaths. Unfortunately, there are some of them that continue to deny the fact that their breaths stink. In other words, I'll have to get a little ugly if I go any further than that.

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The Laminator

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Lol, and smelly people always smell.Judge away oh great one. you don't know who I am. I am you.

Please take the Christianity is wrong/Homosexuality is wrong discussion to [forum=-15].

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Be assured that if I ever woke up one morning knowing that you are actually me, I will jump off a bridge to end my miserable life.Take care.

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The Laminator

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Pick a high bridge.

But to base your life on them, knowing full well that in 15 minutes there will be an update is just silly.