Presidential Debates

Nobody around here has any interest in sodomizing you, Whatever. Nothing's being "forced" on you. Get over yourself.

Think Thomas Jefferson was talking about the infidels in all the religions so, by definition you could be a muslim and be considered an infidel by the radical fundemental element, for simply not accepting say particular tenent, in a particular religion, making you an infidel, like the speaking in tongues, that in another part of the christian body would consider it evidences, in another religious body, an infidel, etc...This too me, is why Thomas Jefferson made a pledge to protect religion from religion, and from the infidel, that disagrees with the particular denominations doctrines, who is free in our constitution to start up their denomination, sect, etc...If I was a pastor, I'd not allow same sex marriage, gay pastors, cause I believe its an abomination, but some Episcopal churches allow this likely because they don't believe that the scriptures are inspired, so in their denomination I'd likely be considered an infidel, and I might consider them an infidel, etc...Its all about having faith in Christ, our righteousness is like a filthy rag, think Paul said that, so we all need to have faith in the faith of Christ, as he is the mediator between man and God, and in revelations it does say to let the filthy be filthy still, too me, means its all up to you(God gives you the free will), between you and God, and by the blood of Christ he is looking for souls to wash clean as white as snow, think the Catholics say the act of contrition (some every night before they sleep), for this very purpose, saying basically that were all sinners saved by grace, not of our selves, etc...Remember the Prodical son that became filthy in the pig pen, yet his father embraced his filthy son, because he knew his son that was lost came to realize how filthy and unworthy he was, to the Father this mean't his son who was lost returned, which was why he called for the best robe to clothe his son, a ring on his hand and shoes for his feet, etc...I'm not a pastor but thought this might relate to those that are filthy from all the other different filthy pig pen senerios including same sex senereo, alcoholic, gambling, etc... but thought it interesting that the Father looks to the heart, and he is searching the heart, the bible says something that people are sinning against their body when they commit sexual abominations(why I believe in the sanctity of marriage between one man and one woman, etc...), though, think God is looking in part at the soul, spirit, etc...P,S, GWB is simply protecting the Sanctity of Marriage so it will be protected from the infidels that disagree, etc...infidel ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nf-dl, -dl)
n.1- An unbeliever with respect to a particular religion, especially Christianity or Islam. (not sure you qualify for this interpretation, etc... my input)2- One who has no religious beliefs. (atheist, TOE, etc... my input)3- One who doubts or rejects a particular doctrine, system, or principle. (those that rejects the doctrine of the churches that a marriage biblically is between one man and one woman, etc...my input)infidel\In"fi*del\, a. le. See Fidelity. Not holding the faith; -- applied esp. to one who does not believe in the inspiration of the Scriptures, and the supernatural origin of Christianity.This message has been edited by whatever, 10-04-2004 12:16 AM

You have indicated that the proportional burdon on the middle class has increased. This does not indicate whether middle class taxes have gone up, down, or stayed the same.My pursuing this point does not at all mean that I favor the Bush tax actions. I do not.Moose

Buz's request (and by extension, yours) is unclear. Does he mean absolute dollar amounts? Dollars adjusted for inflation? Tax liability as a percentage of income?I don't think raw dollar tax revenue by income level is going to particularly illuminating. For instance, if a singificant portion of the middle class experienced a precipitous drop in income, then we might very well find that they were paying less taxes; by the same token, we might find that they were bearing a greater portion of the tax burden and paying a greaterpercentage of their income in taxes than they were before.I'd like to see the terms made a little more clear before we jump up Schraf's ass on this.

And therein lies the rub, as it were. There's been a steady erosion - or perhaps increasing marginalization is a better term - of the Republican middle for many years. A sizeable fraction of the current party platform is a pure religious-based neo-con agenda which is anathema to those of us who still believe in what the Republican party is supposed to stand for: individual liberty and responsibility, small government, fiscal responsibility, rational albeit active (read "aggressive") foreign policy and public diplomacy, open markets, and freedom from government interference in private affairs. From faith-based charities receiving US tax dollars to the now-defeated "marriage amendment" (Yay!), the current platforms contain more and more religious bs and less and less actual substance in the issues that are most important. President Bush has basically culminated this trend, IMO.BTW: I have spoken to a number of fellow Republicans who agree with me on this. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to convince them my nightmare vision of a United Theocracy of America over the next 50 years is valid. They think I'm "over-reacting". IOW, most of them plan on voting for Bush anyway - primarily because they distrust Senator Kerry's record (which isn't enviable, I admit).It's getting harder and harder to be an atheist who simultaneously identifies himself as a Republican...

---

"Cuisve hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare." Cicero

It's like old timers week...I saw SLPx post a few days ago and now Quetzal's back....welcome back oh great bird avatar guy...my guess is you came back to be in time for mike the wiz "poster of the year"

All hail, O Hairy Extinct One! I'm not sure exactly how long I'll be active - I'm sort of between projects again as of last Friday and I've got a meeting today that may initiate another (keeping fingers crossed). I'll try and catch up on my EvC reading and see if there are any good topics that could use my patented bludgeon technique... Where ARE all the good biology topics, anyway?It's good to be back, even if only for a little while.

---

"Cuisve hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare." Cicero

I think it would be interesteing to see this covered in the VP debate, and more so than the presidential one, as it would force Cheney to nuance a position for those conservatives like him that are not against gays being treated as normal people.This is something that Edwards can go after, that and Cheney's continued "conviction" of a linke between Saddam ans AQ ...the "Sunshine Kid" against the "Dour Despot" -- it should be an interesting debate regardless.

---

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

I'll tell you this Buzz: I will pay less taxes this year than last.Because my income is down not because of any tax gift. And I am not alone.The tax gift to the rich did squat for the economy. I bet if a money trail was done that most of the billions that went to the rich went out of the country, so that it actually SUCKED money from the economy.Of course there is NO accounting of the money to determine if it actually had any effect on the economy at all, leaving Bush et al to jump on every pitiful burp in the economy and claim economic victory, another "corner" turned ... "things are (smile) getting better" and other empty statements that ring hollow in the light of truth: the economy has gone nowhere.The tax give-away is a failed (again) method. It has failed 3 times now to boost the economy: why is that?

---

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

The best part about it is by pushing the US into a massive deficit, the tax giveaway to the rich is largely being funded by foreign investment i.e. spending other peoples money, while making the average taxpayer responsible for paying them back. If the economy really goes to crap, guess who is footing the bill?

uh ... the French? (do I get another chance?)ps - your avatar is only half loading ... hope that doens't mean you are going extinctagain?

---

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

The traitors actually appear to be the democratic party, for unfair abuses of filibuster powers, activists liberal minded judges, both in coherts subverting the constitution when you all know that the founding fathers were predominately Christian, heard somewhere that 24 of the signing founding fathers had theological training in the Religion of Jesus Christ, many were ordained ministers, the senior senator from massachussets has not been a good influence on the lesser senator from massachussets. It like after Teddy who being drunkard caused the death of the woman that drowned, it was like after he killed this woman he totally sold out to the globalists maybe he was blackmailed, whatever, probably didn't want to end up as his two other brothers who its believed were killed by the money changers that are making our money out of thin air(who stages wars to put countries into debt), who by dying to their credit died for their belief, so not all democrats were necessarily anti-america, though Kerry is not a John F Kennedy, seems more like TEddy, sold out to the globalists, John F Kennedy if I remember correctly was killed or believed killed by some for wanting our money to be based on silver, and not just the paper its written on(you all do realize that we pay the federal reserve to make our money out of thin air)(its a travesty), the two parties are likely puppets on a string, if you dare to stand up to their making our money out of nothing, they kill you, as the conspiracy theories we all enjoy believe and its likely these people that are pitting us against the terrorists, as far as Iraq because it increases nations debts, what I remember was that George senior was always critized for not finishing the job in Iraq, by the democrats, now George junior is being critized for daring to finish the job, etc...Pat Buchanan was critized because he dared suggest that we close our borders so our jobs couldn't flee because of the democratic parties belief in free trade, so you all simply bought the democratic parties free trade, and Clinton blessed you with jobs being out sourced, now GWB is president and you complain about the jobs you voted to be outsourced, all GWB can do is to bring fairness to the free trade senerio, and all you all want to do is tax to death the ones remaining in our country, truly the democratic party is fighting to destroy this great land and its freedoms, and GWB is only fighting to preserve your freedoms, while the democrats are fighting to depower the people to higher taxes, utilities, and basically to tell you where you can smoke, what you can say, because thats their agenda, to destroy the constitution of the freedoms your founding fathers died to preserve for you and your children.P.S. Vote the democrats out of office, its the American thing to do, cause the democratic solution is to destroy jobs, in this great land, in favor of the environment, etc...P.S. Is it not true that the Federal Reserve is making our money out of thin air, should we not simply start making our own money instead of having a foreign body making our money for our country and charging us outrageous amounts to create our money out of nothing. We should simply deny paying this part of our national debt, and start printing our own money, is not this the reason its believed that Lincoln was killed (for daring to make green backs), and John F Kennedy was killed (for daring to have our money based on silver), because they wanted to make our own money and not be charged by the money changers that are not americans to make our money. Whatever interest is owed to these money changers shouldn't be payed, because they made our money out of thin air, and dare anyone to challenge their right to make our money and charge us interest on money made out of thin air, etc...The gold in Fort Knox has been shipped out of the vaults cause these money changers that make our money out of thin air, demanded payment in gold, for services rendered, etc...Its all unbelievable, how much of a puppet the democrats and republican party actually are, to the Federal Reserve making our money out of nothing, etc...This message has been edited by whatever, 10-04-2004 10:11 AM

Now I'm wondering if you even follow politics at all. The Republicans control all three branches of government right now.I also wonder if you've ever heard of paragraph breaks. But that's a whole different ball of wax, I guess.

---

"If I had to write ten jokes about potholders, I don't think I could do it. But I could write ten jokes about Catholicism in the next twenty minutes. I guess I'm drawn to religion because I can be provocative without harming something people really care about, like their cars."
-George Meyer, Simpsons writer

True enough. However, there is a part of me that doubt Edwards will pursue this simply because he, too, has been dodging every gay rights issue that he's encountered.I think the reason is that Edwards and Kerry are trying to be vague to not drive away the people that are undecided but are homophobic.

quote:

---

Where ARE all the good biology topics, anyway

---

Check out the Is it Science forum in the Applying Science to Past Events thread. It is a fairly interesting discussion...good enough to keep a fairly steady posting frequency by Percy.