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Author Topic:   The boasts of atheists (Atheist self-deception)
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 256 of 304 (330977)
07-11-2006 11:31 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by Faith
07-11-2006 11:21 PM


Re: Boasting
Absolutely crazy, I agree.
I guess it's politically correct to boast about how moral you are (because that means you "love yourself," which of course is wonderful); however, it's politically incorrect to feel sorry for someone because that means you think that you are better than they are.
I mean, who in the hell do I think I am feeling SYMPATHY for somebody?
Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by Faith, posted 07-11-2006 11:21 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 257 by Faith, posted 07-11-2006 11:36 PM robinrohan has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 257 of 304 (330978)
07-11-2006 11:36 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by robinrohan
07-11-2006 11:31 PM


Re: Boasting
I think you caught their logic there.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by robinrohan, posted 07-11-2006 11:31 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 258 by robinrohan, posted 07-11-2006 11:42 PM Faith has replied
 Message 262 by Discreet Label, posted 07-12-2006 12:04 AM Faith has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 258 of 304 (330981)
07-11-2006 11:42 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by Faith
07-11-2006 11:36 PM


Re: Boasting
I think you caught their logic there
Who am I to talk about the fact that people SUFFER? Obviously, I am one of these depressing types who is not into the wonders of life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by Faith, posted 07-11-2006 11:36 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by Faith, posted 07-11-2006 11:51 PM robinrohan has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 259 of 304 (330982)
07-11-2006 11:51 PM
Reply to: Message 258 by robinrohan
07-11-2006 11:42 PM


Re: Boasting
Well you and me both.
Flowers are the way the earth laughs. Retch. We need to start a very exclusive club for those very few who understand what's wrong with that kind of sentiment.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by robinrohan, posted 07-11-2006 11:42 PM robinrohan has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by jar, posted 07-12-2006 12:21 AM Faith has replied

Discreet Label
Member (Idle past 5063 days)
Posts: 272
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 260 of 304 (330983)
07-11-2006 11:53 PM
Reply to: Message 254 by robinrohan
07-11-2006 11:06 PM


Re: Boasting
A few weeks ago I went with my wife to the VA hospital locally (she was signing up for benefits). While she was filling out paperwork, I wandered around. I happened to go out this door into a sort of patio, and there I saw a lot of old men. Many of them were missing limbs. They didn't look like they had much money either. Shabbily dressed. Veterans of some war or other.
It was terrible. My heart went out to them.
Did you once ask them if they were unhappy or even talk to them beyond your giving of a cigarette to one?
I feel pitying a person because of the way they look is quite frankly the most monstrous thing to do. Because you have no idea why or how feel about look the way. You are assuming that they look unhappy because they lost limbs, or have no money, you are assuming they are unhappy because they don't have the things that you have. At this point how can you even know enough about the veterns to pity them. I am then valid in making the assumption that you demonstrated little or no concern about how they feel because you have dehumanized made them and their experiences less human.
AND I would dare you to tell these people you pity them. I am willing to bet that if they are spry enough they will fall out of their wheel chairs just to attempt to hit you, or if not that they will be insulted by your pity, or if they are past the point of caring about anothers 'pity' they will just tune you out. They will percieve your comments as spitting on their life period you have just devalued their life and have not respected their person peroid all without even knowing or asking them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by robinrohan, posted 07-11-2006 11:06 PM robinrohan has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 263 by Faith, posted 07-12-2006 12:05 AM Discreet Label has not replied

docpotato
Member (Idle past 5047 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 261 of 304 (330985)
07-11-2006 11:56 PM


I'm just glad that, through all this, I've been able to maintain my exemplary moral character.
And my overall happiness about the meaningless nature of human existence.

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by Nighttrain, posted 07-12-2006 2:39 AM docpotato has not replied

Discreet Label
Member (Idle past 5063 days)
Posts: 272
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 262 of 304 (330986)
07-12-2006 12:04 AM
Reply to: Message 257 by Faith
07-11-2006 11:36 PM


What is illogical is to assume that someone is unhappy by just looking at them!
For all you know they could have just passed the juiciest fart ever and they are unhappy about the pleasantness in their pants! And they are unhappy with the way they are going to have to clean up.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by Faith, posted 07-11-2006 11:36 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by Faith, posted 07-12-2006 12:07 AM Discreet Label has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 263 of 304 (330987)
07-12-2006 12:05 AM
Reply to: Message 260 by Discreet Label
07-11-2006 11:53 PM


Re: Boasting
Wow, that blast of moral indignation against a guy who felt something for some people who have suffered greatly is just perverse.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by Discreet Label, posted 07-11-2006 11:53 PM Discreet Label has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 264 of 304 (330988)
07-12-2006 12:07 AM
Reply to: Message 262 by Discreet Label
07-12-2006 12:04 AM


It's called empathy. Sensitivity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by Discreet Label, posted 07-12-2006 12:04 AM Discreet Label has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 265 by Discreet Label, posted 07-12-2006 12:19 AM Faith has not replied

Discreet Label
Member (Idle past 5063 days)
Posts: 272
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 265 of 304 (330990)
07-12-2006 12:19 AM
Reply to: Message 264 by Faith
07-12-2006 12:07 AM


How can you empathize or be sensitive to another person's life if you have no knowledge of their situation. You can assume that they are in a rotten mood because of that, and by all means you should be aware of possible comments that may touch sensitive to that person.
But to empathize in such the manner you describe, makes them less of a person. They become an object, because its like you've empathy for a less then functional person! And you have no idea if they even care the way that you do about their own arms.
Its akin to pitying the blind. You can be empathetic or be sensitive to the blind person if you've talked to them, but the second you start assuming they are sad that they are blind you have crossed the line, and made them an object of unreasoning empathy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by Faith, posted 07-12-2006 12:07 AM Faith has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 266 of 304 (330991)
07-12-2006 12:21 AM
Reply to: Message 259 by Faith
07-11-2006 11:51 PM


Re: Boasting
Faith writes:
Flowers are the way the earth laughs. Retch. We need to start a very exclusive club for those very few who understand what's wrong with that kind of sentiment.
Thank you Faith. It was part of my present to my Mom the Christmas before she died. That and a little sprinkler head shaped like a froggie. It sits on a garden called Kitty's (everyone called her Kitty) Patch which is filled with all the flowers she loved so much.
Kitty was one of those folk that was in constant awe of the world. She raised a whole passle of kids, and fed and clothed them, saw to their education, loved her garden and birds and stray kittens and went to the pound to walk the doggies and brought them treats and brought way too many of them home and made ceramics and taught us about kilns and how to scoop up tadpoles and all about fuzzy ants and that white faced bees don't sting and how to pick blackberries without getting caught on the thorns and how the hairs on a kittens tongue are backwards and how mice scurry across the floor and where the owls hid in the barn and that black snakes are your friends and the one that slithered through the ceiling of the old fieldstone house and sometimes peered down at us from the little hole in the corner kept the mice out of the house and how flying squirrels flew and bats too and that snow angels were mandatory and that love hid under rocks at the edge of the pond where the native trout slept.
Yes, I'm sure you are right.

"Flowers are the way the earth laughs. Retch." quoth the Faith.

Yes, you should start a very exclusive club for those who are unable to see the wonder around them and in life.
Edited by jar, : add requisite spallin arrers

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by Faith, posted 07-11-2006 11:51 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by Faith, posted 07-12-2006 12:41 AM jar has replied

alacrity fitzhugh
Member (Idle past 4288 days)
Posts: 194
Joined: 02-10-2004


Message 267 of 304 (330992)
07-12-2006 12:24 AM
Reply to: Message 254 by robinrohan
07-11-2006 11:06 PM


Re: Boasting
robinrohan writes:
A few weeks ago I went with my wife to the VA hospital locally (she was signing up for benefits). While she was filling out paperwork, I wandered around. I happened to go out this door into a sort of patio, and there I saw a lot of old men. Many of them were missing limbs. They didn't look like they had much money either. Shabbily dressed. Veterans of some war or other.
It was terrible. My heart went out to them
In march of 1983 the ship I was stationed on pulled into Antallya, Turkey. They ferried us to and from on 'liberty boats'. Upon docking a throng of children gathered around us asking for handouts(to them we were those rich Americans) Some had weight scales that you could weigh yourself for a dollar. MOst of these children attire was dirty rags, some had problems that are usually corrected at a very young age in the West. Some were missing body parts(legs, eyes, fingers...)
WE had only so much money, but damned if we didnt give to as many as we could. The mayor even handed our Captain an 'official citation' in recognition of this.
You seem to think that because I have no higher power to answer to that I should be unhappy, morose. Well that is not going to happen! I'm happily married with two beautiful daughters; both my parents are around and they accept me for myself.
Back to your VA visit:
msg 238:
robinrohan writes:
They were poor because they got their legs blown off in some horrible battle, and when they got back they couldn't find a decent job
This is insulting. They were not "poor because they got their legs blown off". Each of those men/women followed their beliefs and most are proud of what they have done.
msg 238:
robinrohan writes:
No, but they SUFFER.
I looked at their faces, and what I saw was a stony, stoic suffering.
One of them bummed a cigarette off me. That's all I had to give him.
You could volunteer at the VA maybe help those poor shabbily dressed vetrans of some war or another(did you even talk to any if not why?). Maybe help at a soup kitchen or homeless shelter that helps vetrans?

Sometimes I don't know why we'd rather live than die,
we look up towards the sky for answers to our lives.
We may get some solutions but most just pass us by,
don't want your absolution cause I can't make it right

This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by robinrohan, posted 07-11-2006 11:06 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by Faith, posted 07-12-2006 12:46 AM alacrity fitzhugh has replied
 Message 289 by robinrohan, posted 07-12-2006 8:22 AM alacrity fitzhugh has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 268 of 304 (330999)
07-12-2006 12:41 AM
Reply to: Message 266 by jar
07-12-2006 12:21 AM


Re: Boasting
I'm sorry. I just dislike sentimentality. It's phony. Sometimes it's mere inarticulateness though, not always phoniness. I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings about it. I would never say this to anyone normally. It just has to be said on a thread like this which is ABOUT such things and in which you are all trashing Robin because of his perfectly sensible feelings and arguments.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by jar, posted 07-12-2006 12:21 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by jar, posted 07-12-2006 1:14 AM Faith has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 269 of 304 (331000)
07-12-2006 12:46 AM
Reply to: Message 267 by alacrity fitzhugh
07-12-2006 12:24 AM


Re: Boasting
Why are you all making this huge moral calamity out of a man's feeling for people who are suffering?????

This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by alacrity fitzhugh, posted 07-12-2006 12:24 AM alacrity fitzhugh has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 270 by docpotato, posted 07-12-2006 12:56 AM Faith has replied
 Message 271 by arachnophilia, posted 07-12-2006 12:57 AM Faith has replied
 Message 296 by alacrity fitzhugh, posted 07-12-2006 9:42 AM Faith has not replied

docpotato
Member (Idle past 5047 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 270 of 304 (331004)
07-12-2006 12:56 AM
Reply to: Message 269 by Faith
07-12-2006 12:46 AM


Re: Boasting
I believe the point is:
One doesn't know they are suffering.
One assumes they are suffering.
One then feels something based on one's (possibly faulty) assumption.
I think, then, that this feeling has absolutely zero to do with the reality of who these people actually are and everything to do with the baggage the person having the feeling carries with them.
I do think that it is sensible at times to make such assumptions. It makes life easier to sort through. But I also believe that it is folly to cling to them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by Faith, posted 07-12-2006 12:46 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 281 by Faith, posted 07-12-2006 3:08 AM docpotato has not replied

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