New Pope Thread

I'm not going to turn this into a debate on demographics - that would be off topic. However I have evidence to do so, should I wish to. Your mild invective is no more than self-gratification.

Out of touch could be a screen for "not agreeing with us that sin is good" and thereby following the sinful, by obeying what their sins demand.Basically, you're asking biblicans to endorse sin, by saying "get with the times". How ironic. You're saying it's the fault of those who are celibate that human population is up? Lol. Maybe if people obeyed the bible, there wouldn't be a problem.That's fallacious Shraff girly, the real problem is that people are going against what God says, NOT the the fault of those who in this instance, DO as God says.Oh how typical, "hey celibate Pope dude, it's your fault there's babies, because we can't stop shagging". Oh yeah Shraff, there's a logic in there somewhere, but mikey just can't find it.

It is my understanding that Mr. Newdow's ex-spouse, who had custody of the daughter, had different opinions regarding theism and how the daughter should be exposed to it. Mr Newdow is entitled to his views, however IMO has inflated a garden - variety cutodial dispute into the Brave Rationalist vs. the Oppressive Theocracy. Quite so. However, if one is going to take an unpopular stand on principle, one must be prepared to accept the reasonably forseeable consequences -ask Martin Luther King. Students SHOULD be able to opt out of the POA without opprobrium - but kids are kids.It's unfortunate that some theists seem to feel they must coerce others into their belief system - but that's life. And there is intra-theist coercion, but a polite "No thanks, I'm Catholic" seems to work with the young men on bicycles who visit me periodically.

One could make the case that all posts here are to some degree "no more than self-gratification", but the fact still is that the world wide human population is growing exponentially and shows no signs of slowing. Industrialized nations have seen a reduction in births, but still a net increase in population due to immigration. What "evidence" do you have that shows human depopulation?

DOH!This message has been edited by General Krull, 22-Apr-2005 09:14 AM

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Out of touch could be a screen for "not agreeing with us that sin is good"

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More like "not agreeing with them that X is a sin at all."

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Basically, you're asking biblicans to endorse sin, by saying "get with the times".

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If you lived in an locked house that was meant to house 6 people, but instead it was crammed to the rafters with 60 people that never left for any reason because some of the people's religion said that more people in the house is always better, would you think it was "sinful" to perhaps prevent more people from entering the house?

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How ironic. You're saying it's the fault of those who are celibate that human population is up?

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Yes, that is ironic, isn't it, that the people who don't bear the children or are responsible for raising them are dictating such edicts to the people who do and are?

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Lol. Maybe if people obeyed the bible, there wouldn't be a problem.

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Maybe if more people used birth control, there wouldn't be a problem.

That's the worldly offering ofcourse, but the real solution is always found in God. Obeying the scriptures removes the cause AND stops the problem. That's 2-1 to Yahweh. Who do they dictate to? Atheists aswell? Why is it only "families" you mention? Or "males"? You mentioned catholic celibate males (pope and such). I wondered why you think it's their sin? They might dictate certain things but they are not the cause of the problem. You don't get to decide what isn't sin. The bible says which is sin, and if anyone disagress it's irrelevant, as there would be no problem if everyone followed what God says to do. This is just a stumbling block for mikey.Why, there wouldn't be 60 in one house if us westerners didn't have a house each.

Too late, mike's omni-eyes read it. It's okay Charles, you shouldn't have deleted it. Maybe I was a bit mis-representative of what she said. Sorry if I was a bit naughty but Shraff knows I put a certain mikey-spin on things that make them think.This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 04-22-2005 09:26 AM

I thought about it and then thought - I really don't want to get into this one.But you were a bit too quick for me......:-)(what our americans may not realise is that the sun is shining in the UK and that tends to make us brits go all giddy - because it is so rare).This message has been edited by General Krull, 22-Apr-2005 09:35 AM

Newdow has joint custody and legal guardianship. I don't think there's anything inflated about it. The Supreme Court of our government thinks that having a civil religion doesn't enforce religion on anybody. Presumably their rationale is "well, everybody believes in God already. Well, except for the atheists, but they don't count." Sorry, I'm not going to allow the government to tell me that I don't count. ...You're actually saying that Martin Luther King Jr.'s assassination was his own fault? That he asked for it? How can you say such an offensive thing? It's also unconstitutional. "I'm not interested" has always worked pretty well for me. But if they barge in my door anyway, I'm calling the police. They don't get to hide behind "but that's life" any more than any other criminal does, and trying to force your religion on someone else in a situation where they have no option to decline is criminal.

That's your defense for him? That he didn't join the Hitler Youth again? That would have been hard, considering the organization no longer existed and he was no longer a youth.Well, hey. Not to get overdramatic but none of the 9/11 hijackers have hijacked any more planes. Guess they're not all that bad of guys, right?

I think she'll apreciate you pouncing to her cause, which is a just effort because Shraff is a goodly one. This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 04-22-2005 09:41 AM

You're seriously telling me that whatever else he has or hasn't do in his life the mere fact he was in the hitler youth renders him morally reprehensible for the rest of his life? Come on! If they'd survived, and then lived for sixty years as decent people, yeah, I'd say the fact they hijacked a plane sixty years ago was pretty irrelevant to an assessment of them now.

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That's the worldly offering ofcourse, but the real solution is always found in God. Obeying the scriptures removes the cause AND stops the problem. That's 2-1 to Yahweh.

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So, when the Bible says "Be fruitful and multiply", how is it addressing the overpopulation and resulting global environmental degradation, and poverty due to inadequate resources we see are currently facing?

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Who do they dictate to? Atheists aswell?

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Inasmuch as the Catholic Church has influence over governments, yes, they dictate to Athiests and all non-Catholics.Catholics constitute almost one fifth of the world's population, mike. 200 heads of state attended the late Pope's funeral.I'd say that makes the Catholic Church very, very influential in the world.

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Why is it only "families" you mention? Or "males"? You mentioned catholic celibate males (pope and such). I wondered why you think it's their sin? They might dictate certain things but they are not the cause of the problem.

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The leadership of the Catholic Church are entirely (supposedly) celibate, (supposedly) straight, forbidden to marry, and male.(There is no Biblical requirement for them to be any of these things, BTW)They are dictating behaviors to people regarding issues they are completely divorced from. They cannot relate at all.

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You don't get to decide what isn't sin.

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Why not, the people who run the Catholic Church certainly do, and they change their minds on what is a sin and what isn't?What makes them better than me?

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The bible says which is sin,

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And the people in the Church are interpreting it in different ways depending upon the times. It used to be a sin to belive the earth orbited the sun, remember.

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and if anyone disagress it's irrelevant, as there would be no problem if everyone followed what God says to do.

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So, if everybody stopped using birth control, would the environmental degradation get better or worse?Please answer the question below.The "house" is the earth.If you lived in an locked house that was meant to house 6 people, but instead it was crammed to the rafters with 60 people that never left for any reason because some of the people's religion said that more people in the house is always better, would you think it was "sinful" to perhaps prevent more people from entering the house?

No.No, it doesn't. I understand the conditions of wartime Germany and the pressures he was under. Not everybody in the German army was a bad guy; not everyone in the Hitler Youth was really a Nazi.I have tolerance and understanding for the conditions that led to him being a part of something that we now find morally objectionable. I'm willing to let that go because I don't think he has a choice.What I can't forgive is his own lack of tolerance or sympathy for those in exactly the same situation. It's the moral hypocrisy of his hard-line views that I can't abide, and that I judge him for.Is that more clear?