true religion

This forum is intended to help visitors get a feel for the place, perhaps get a few questions answered, and try out a little discussion. It is not intended for long-term unregistered participation.------------------
--EvC Forum Administrator

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but i have never heard unicorns mentioned in the bible , its a big book and honestly i just have not read it all.

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Wow, you claim that everything in the Bible is true, yet you haven't even read it all yourself!

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and his point was that i should have faith in unicorns not if i believe in them , in fact faith in God has purpose and is a gift from God that he is more important than an animal IS obvious and i dont recall the bible telling me to have faith in animals.whether unicorns exist or not.

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Well then, if all you need to "have faith in" is God, and perhaps Jesus, then why do reject all of modern Biology in favor of a literal reading of a few lines of Genesis?Why is your faith in God and Jesus dependent upon that?Oh, and here is the unicorn stuff:Psalms 22:21
Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.Psalms 29:6
He maketh them also to skip like a calf; Lebanon and Sirion like a young unicorn.Numbers 23:22
God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn.Deut 33:17
His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.Job 39:9
Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?
Job 39:10
Canst thou bind the unicorn with his band in the furrow? or will he harrow the valleys after thee? this is probably a mistranslation in the JKV. They probably meant to translate the word to "oxen" or something similar. So, it's a mistake that makes the text kind of nonsensicalIsaiah 34:7
And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.The bible also talks about dragons and talking donkeys.[This message has been edited by schrafinator, 05-18-2003]

I am sure you are very nice. I am actually very nice, too.In a debating forum, however, our job is to debate with logic, facts, evidence, and well-reasoned, educated arguments.I know that it can feel like being picked on to have your arguments and statements dissected and shown to be weak or in error, but it is very helpful exercise.You should also know that none of this is personal at all. Notice that we don't call you dumb or silly. We critique your ideas and arguments, but this is not the same as critiquing you personally.Think of it like lifting weights for your brain; it hurts a little bit to work out thoroughly, but you end up stronger and more agile if you keep doing it.Now, why don't we continue our debating in the regular forums and get the Admin off our backs?[This message has been edited by schrafinator, 05-18-2003]

'Well then, if all you need to "have faith in" is God, and perhaps Jesus, then why do reject all of modern Biology in favor of a literal reading of a few lines of Genesis?'because God has always existed for me i cannot remember a certain time i didnt believe, i kind of always believed even by my own choice. (was not brain washed).'The bible also talks about dragons and talking donkeys'i dont dispute whether these creatures existed or not , also many believers have not read all of the bible not just me.only God has only ever shown me what fully matters -his love for us,Jesus and having faith in him,which essentially is my point , that he says have faith in God he does not say have faith in animals . listen why can't you just admitt its a weak arguement , faith in God IS special , God comes through wher as nothing of earth we place our faith in is for certain!and by the way the "picking on me " thing was just a joke you do not have to argue with me on that aswell do you?

That doesn't even begin to answer the question. The question is, why must faith in God equate to a literal reading of the bible? Especially in the face of evidence (internal and external) against such a reading?Plenty of people have faith in god but accept the findings of science. (I'm not one of them, but there are plenty.) Again, why does that have to mean creationism to you? I for one am curious.

"Wow, you claim that everything in the Bible is true, yet you haven't even read it all yourself!"One might equally state:"Wow, you claim that everything in the quantum theory is true, yet you haven't even read it all yourself!"Now which religion should I believe (albeit I haven't read it all myself):
A) Quantum theory?
B) The Bible?
C) The Source (Cause) of both Quantum Mechanics and the Bible?
D) Dogmatic speculators of science or metaphysics?
E) Reason without love?
E) All of the above?
F) None of the above?Wow, I'm sucked into (A),(B), and (C). 'Don't know quite why. Perhaps its simply: Another day to rejoice and sing, cry and die, resurrect and live anew. Sounds to me like a Christ animating and re-animating it all (light and life) somehow.

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"Wow, you claim that everything in the quantum theory is true, yet you haven't even read it all yourself!"

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'cept nobody would claim that everything in quantum theory is true. Quantum theory rests on evidence and the evidence is far from complete. It is our attempt to explain some very peculiar observations. And there are some major problems with that explaination. This is no secret. That is why the field is interesting.On the other hand, the Bible is complete and not that long, so to claim that everything is true when one hasn't read all of it is a bit silly.By the way, not one of your 'religions' qualifies as religion.------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

hi crash'That doesn't even begin to answer the question.'but the arguement was why have faith in God,i believe in the bible o.k i have not read every word but i have read most of it and forgive me but it does not say have faith in animals.also crash i am not against biology and scientific FACT like she suggests but surely you can see the difference between God and an animal.-poor arguement!'Again, why does that have to mean creationism to you? I for one am curious. 'because one man brought sin into the world and one man took it out therefore genesis is the foundation of my faith and creation.

'On the other hand, the Bible is complete and not that long, so to claim that everything is true when one hasn't read all of it is a bit silly.'i HAVE read most of it and do not remember EVERY word but the main message i have recieved , have you read every single book on evolution and can remember every word , no , nor do i expect you to however i think you have read enough to believe it, at one stage -personally after reading half of it , i realised the bible was true!most people do not read every single word , personally i just havent had the time to read every word , it doesn't mean i'm silly .

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i HAVE read most of it

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I HAVE read all of it, several times. I don't remember every word of it either, but then, I don't claim that every word is true.

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i think you have read enough to believe it

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Yes, but that isn't the issue is it? I don't claim, nor do I believe, that every word in every book on evolution is true. In fact, I know that some things have been proven false, and I am sure that other things will be proven false in time. I would have to read every book on evolution in order to honestly make that claim. You, on the other hand, have claimed and appear to believe that every word of the Bible is true. This means you MUST know every word, or you are just not being honest. You can't know that the next sentence you read won't be false.

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it doesn't mean i'm silly .

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You've made a statement that you cannot know to be true. You cannot know it to be true because you have not read every word of the Bible. Maybe you were convinced by the second page that the Bible's message is true. It doesn't follow that every word is true, nor can you make that claim honestly. I have more accurate words than 'silly' but lets be civil.------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

Schraf's question, if I read it right, asked you why faith in God has to mean faith in a literal reading of the bible. For many reasonable, faithful people, it doesn't. I'm just curious how you defend the literal interpretation. Sure, but does it have to be literally, historically true to have that significance? I can appreciate that that's the foundation of your faith but it doesn't have to be a literal narrative to be the case. It could simply be a parable. It's possible for a story to express a truth without itself being literally true.

'It could simply be a parable. It's possible for a story to express a truth without itself being literally true.'this is what i first thought (that most of these stories were parables with meaning)after listening to creationists i then slowly changed my mind.there is no real reason to dismiss it as myth (genesis)even if there is an evolution theory.

'You've made a statement that you cannot know to be true'but i have read everything God has guided me to and personally i believe it is true which indeed does not make me silly,and i was being very honest when i said i havent read it all as i knew i would be attacked for admitting this!
however i DO believe and know it to be true through personal experience however you know as i have said in the past , you know very well i cannot prove it scientifically to you,ive noticed we have went off the faith arguement because it was a weak one('why then not have faith in fairies' e.t.c) and the evos know it!

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ive noticed we have went off the faith arguement because it was a weak one('why then not have faith in fairies' e.t.c) and the evos know it!

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Or because you weren't listening to the responses you got.Here, I'll sum them up for you again.The bible says that you should believe in its creation myth. You do so. The bible also says there are unicorns. But you don't believe in unicorns.Why is one part of the bible to be taken literally and another not? The relative importance of the two don't matter. The bible claims that every word in it is the word of God. Therefore, the word of God says that there are unicorns.Is God lying? Or is God's word unimportant in that section?Or is it more likely that the bible is not a work intended to be taken literally?-----------
Dan Carroll[This message has been edited by Dan Carroll, 05-20-2003]

'Is God lying? Or is God's word unimportant in that section?'every word IS true ,and get your facts straight i never argued against unicorns the evos did ,it is you skipping the question on faith which is the poorest arguement against my God i have EVER heard 'why not place faith in fairies or unicorns'show me where it says in the bible i should have faith in animals and not God?God is creator , the gift of faith is from him and he always says even though your family will even let you down(which mine have at times)he wont , and indeed i must confess he God has never let me down!END OF!