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Author Topic:   Why Evolution is a Fraud
Evolution Crusher
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 72 (401919)
05-22-2007 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Heathen
05-22-2007 7:02 PM


Do you approach everything with such prejudices?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Heathen, posted 05-22-2007 7:02 PM Heathen has replied

Replies to this message:
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subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 17 of 72 (401920)
05-22-2007 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Evolution Crusher
05-22-2007 6:11 PM


Some of the "Sources"
Can't cut and paste all of the "sources," but it's many of the usual suspects. Ken Ham, Phillip Johnson, Michael Behe, Henry Morris, Adolph Hitler, biblebelivers.net, theonion.com.
A veritable Who's Who of the 21st century's greatest scientific minds.
http://www.evofraud.com/evofraud_sources.html

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Chiroptera, posted 05-22-2007 7:13 PM subbie has replied
 Message 31 by Zhimbo, posted 05-22-2007 8:31 PM subbie has replied
 Message 32 by RAZD, posted 05-22-2007 8:31 PM subbie has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 72 (401921)
05-22-2007 7:13 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by subbie
05-22-2007 7:09 PM


And sources for the reviews!
I saw that, too, subbie. Check out the sources for reviews, too. Mostly rabid anti-leftists, heh.

Actually, if their god makes better pancakes, I'm totally switching sides. -- Charley the Australopithecine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by subbie, posted 05-22-2007 7:09 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 19 of 72 (401922)
05-22-2007 7:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Evolution Crusher
05-22-2007 6:11 PM


From A Few Quotes
EvoCrusher - Package the what you feel is the best argument in the book and present it - I would be very interested is this and would like to see the substance of the arguments.
Based on the minimal reviews and comments I can find such as "A must read for all home-schoolers" I will not be soon parting with my money to buy a nonsense propaganda book.
However I looked around and found a few quotes....
TSutcliff writes:
“Every time I’d hear a discussion about evolution, it quickly broke down into this ”science-versus-religion’ stalemate and that was the end of it,” ... “Discussions about chemistry and physics don’t fall into the same trap, so why should evolution?”
Let me venture a guess.... maybe because the Fundamentalist view Evolution and a huge threat to their bronze age beliefs?
From an editorial review....
Editoral Review writes:
Heavily researched ... the eight-chapter book ... which reveals how genetics disproves evolution and how evolution is mathematically impossible.
From this, I have one question, does he rehash the 747 from a junkyard argument?
Some other quotes:
TSutcliff writes:
“In Europe, the idea that some humans were closer to ape-like hominids was accepted and normalized over several decades,”
So.
Some Christian denominations believed as a result of Cain's rebellion, he was was cursed with a dark skin and became the father of the Negroes.
Jefferson Davis argued that "slavery was established by decree of Almighty God. It is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation".
In reality evolution delivers undeniable proof that all human races are members of the same species.
TSutcliff writes:
“While evolution did not commit the evil acts at the Nazi concentration camps, the normalization of evolution over generations made it easier for the executioners to do it.”
So if we are to dismiss Evolution because of his alleged and specious enabling factor of the Holocaust, does this mean we can also reject Christianity based on the Crusades and Inqusition? Of which Christianity played a very overt role and not an indirect one.

This message is a reply to:
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Evolution Crusher
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 72 (401923)
05-22-2007 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by PaulK
05-22-2007 7:00 PM


Are you familiar with the history of evolution after the publication of Origin of The Species? Most people are not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by PaulK, posted 05-22-2007 7:00 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by subbie, posted 05-22-2007 7:24 PM Evolution Crusher has not replied
 Message 25 by Chiroptera, posted 05-22-2007 7:31 PM Evolution Crusher has not replied
 Message 40 by Taz, posted 05-22-2007 9:39 PM Evolution Crusher has not replied
 Message 41 by PaulK, posted 05-23-2007 1:57 AM Evolution Crusher has not replied
 Message 42 by anglagard, posted 05-23-2007 3:32 AM Evolution Crusher has not replied
 Message 56 by dwise1, posted 05-23-2007 4:30 PM Evolution Crusher has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 21 of 72 (401924)
05-22-2007 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Chiroptera
05-22-2007 7:13 PM


Chapter summaries
A quick perusal of the Chapter Summaries tells us everything we need to know about the contents of this fish wrap.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Chiroptera, posted 05-22-2007 7:13 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 22 of 72 (401925)
05-22-2007 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Evolution Crusher
05-22-2007 7:14 PM


EC, I can assure you that everyone who has responded in this thread knows considerably more about the history of evolution than this Sutcliff fellow is ever likely to know.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 23 of 72 (401926)
05-22-2007 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Evolution Crusher
05-22-2007 6:47 PM


What stalemate.
EvoCrusher writes:
The best point is the whole focus of the book; the author makes the unique point of breaking the tired old 'science versus religion' stalemate by forcing evolution to stand (or fall) on its own.
It is disappointing that you feel science and religion are really in some sort of stalemate.
Evolution being science, will always stand or fall in concordance to the data and its explanatory and predictive power; not because if provides a more satisfying explanation than the Genesis Creation myth.

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 24 of 72 (401928)
05-22-2007 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Evolution Crusher
05-22-2007 6:47 PM


There are a lot of strong points, so it is hard to narrow it down to just one.
Sutcliff cites a recent BBC article where students at a UK university tried to put the famous typing monkey theory into practice. Needless to say, the monkeys did not type anything that even remotely resembled Shakespear as Hardison predicted. They did not even type a legible word in English. However, the monkeys did succeed in using the computers as toilets.
The one particular point you wish to bring against evolution is that monkeys use typewiters as toilets?
You have no idea what the theory of evolution is, have you?
The chapter titled Agendascience really nails the 'why' behind why so many folks buy evolution, even though evolution is scientifically deficient and based more on philosophy than science.
In the same way, people who think that the world is being controlled by aliens feel obliged to explain complicated elaborate psychological nonsense about why I don't agree with them.
So do the 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists.
Every nutjob whacko has an explanation for why I only disagree with him 'cos I'm "frightened" or "in denial" or blah-de-blah. This is the mark of a failure with no actual evidence on his side.
The best point is the whole focus of the book; the author makes the unique point of breaking the tired old 'science versus religion' stalemate by forcing evolution to stand (or fall) on its own. Aside from a belief in God, Sutcliff does not mention religion at all. His arguments are soundly based on the weight of the evidence, not the consensus of the masses. I thought this was a refreshing approach.
To summarise --- the author doesn't put forward one single point in favor of creationism: the whole book is devoted to whining about aspects of evolution which he doesn't understand.
I don't see why you find this a "refreshing approach", this is what all creationists do. Obviously they can't present evidence for the story about the talking snake and the magic tree, 'cos it's rubbish, so they whine about science instead.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 72 (401929)
05-22-2007 7:31 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Evolution Crusher
05-22-2007 7:14 PM


Are you familiar with the history of evolution after the publication of Origin of The Species? Most people are not.
What a coincidence. I've just finished reading a very good book that devoted a lot of space to the history of evolutionary thought. S.J. Gould's essays are another good source for the history of evolutionary science.
What would you like to know?

Actually, if their god makes better pancakes, I'm totally switching sides. -- Charley the Australopithecine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Evolution Crusher, posted 05-22-2007 7:14 PM Evolution Crusher has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 26 of 72 (401931)
05-22-2007 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Evolution Crusher
05-22-2007 6:54 PM


Re: Gullibles unite you have nothing to lose but your cash
A closed mind gathers no knowledge.
Then open yours.
Math cannot prove or disprove a single thing in reality. At best all it can do is model reality. At worst it models fantasy with no relation to reality.
Evolution is an observed fact, thus any mathematical "proof" that it can't happen is de facto a fraud: You've been conned.
Message 6
There are a lot of strong points, so it is hard to narrow it down to just one.
Sutcliff cites a recent BBC article where students at a UK university tried to put the famous typing monkey theory into practice. Needless to say, the monkeys did not type anything that even remotely resembled Shakespear as Hardison predicted. They did not even type a legible word in English. However, the monkeys did succeed in using the computers as toilets.
This refutes evolution how? This is the strongest point you can mention and it is a vacuous statement based on something totally unrelated to science to say nothing of evolution?
(ibid)
The chapter titled Agendascience really nails the 'why' behind why so many folks buy evolution, even though evolution is scientifically deficient and based more on philosophy than science.
Perhaps you can glean something from this chapter that is less nonsense than your monkey example and post it for our enjoyment.
(ibid)
The best point is the whole focus of the book; the author makes the unique point of breaking the tired old 'science versus religion' stalemate by forcing evolution to stand (or fall) on its own.
A point that you assert and yet there has been not one iota of evidence that there is any validity to such a claim. Assertion alone is insufficient evidence.
What I see is someone cashing in on the gullibility of ignorant people that will be foolish enough to pay money to be told what they want to hear rather than what is true: so far the evidence is that you've been conned.
But really you should start another thread on what the book says or ask that this be moved out of "book nook" to another forum ("is it science" would be appropriate for discussing the contents of the book eh?). Admin could copy this there and close this thread (thus leaving the book nook entry while allowing continued discussion of the merits of the book, and the link would allow the curious to follow).
Message 8
The best point is the whole focus of the book; the author makes the unique point of breaking the tired old 'science versus religion' stalemate by forcing evolution to stand (or fall) on its own.
It doesn't have to be to be full of the same PRATTS that creationists use: they pretend they have a scientific basis as well.
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : msg quote ref

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Evolution Crusher, posted 05-22-2007 6:54 PM Evolution Crusher has not replied

  
Zhimbo
Member (Idle past 6012 days)
Posts: 571
From: New Hampshire, USA
Joined: 07-28-2001


Message 27 of 72 (401932)
05-22-2007 8:20 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Evolution Crusher
05-22-2007 6:47 PM


quote:
"makes the unique point of breaking the tired old 'science versus religion' stalemate by forcing evolution to stand (or fall) on its own"
That's a unique point? That's the point of this website and of talkorigins.org, and well...of biology.
That isn't a unique point. It's called "science".

This message is a reply to:
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Zhimbo
Member (Idle past 6012 days)
Posts: 571
From: New Hampshire, USA
Joined: 07-28-2001


Message 28 of 72 (401933)
05-22-2007 8:25 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by subbie
05-22-2007 7:02 PM


quote:
Wow! In five years, he found 44 whole sources! That is impressive. *chortling*
Yeah, I loved that, too. I've written papers of lower my expectations.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by subbie, posted 05-22-2007 7:02 PM subbie has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 29 of 72 (401935)
05-22-2007 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Evolution Crusher
05-22-2007 6:11 PM


So, what you are suggesting is that scientists are conspiring to maintain an elaborate fraud upon the rest of the world, is that correct?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Evolution Crusher, posted 05-22-2007 6:11 PM Evolution Crusher has not replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 30 of 72 (401936)
05-22-2007 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Evolution Crusher
05-22-2007 6:11 PM


Heavily researched?
Heavily researched, with all 44 sources listed on the book’s Web site at http://www.evofraud.com, Sutcliff spent five years researching and writing the eight-chapter book
I have to echo's Subbie's *chortling* at this claim. I'd expect a "heavily researched" book debunking evolution to have more than 44 sources, the last text on human evolution that I read had over 2500.

Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
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