If, I say IF, I Were Creator Of Animals And Intelligent Creatures.............

..........And there we have the response from down under. I do hope something indicative of a measure of intelligence will emerge to represent the good folks down there.

So basically what you are saying is that I know that God is the boss but I haven't realised that I know ? And the same for everybody else who doesn't believe in your God ? That's a pretty silly idea.And I see that Christianity has convinced you that genocide can be entirely justifiable . So much for the idea that Christianity teaches good morals.With regard to 7 and 8 you mean that you DON'T have any reasons - you just ASSUME that God does.With regard to "prophecy" is a fact that YOU spin and twist and falsely accuse others of doing so when they dare to disagree with you. As has been seen in the threads discussing the issue where you have been unable to defend your twisting. If you remenber the last time you abandoned the discussion on the grounds that you did not have time to work out what YOUR chosen examnple of fulfilled prophecy actually said.
And no I don't beleive that you are delusional enough to actually beleive that what you said was true - your own inability to argue your point your evasions and retreats are things that you could not be unaware of.As for the final paragraph it seems that your God is incapable of working with more than one small culture. Yet you expect this sadly limited deity to be capable of setting up a world kingdom.

1. Christianity has not taught anyone that genocide is justifiable. That Christians believe in the OT as from God does in no way justifies genocide by Christians. The OT account of the Jews' conquest of Caanan was for a different age for a specific nation and whether it can be considered genocide would be relative to the following:1. The Jews were a people of slaves in Egypt who were oppressed by the Egyptians. Being miraculously delivered from Egypt, they wandered in a wilderness desert for 40 years looking for a place to go.2. Abraham, father of Isaac whose son was Jacob, whose 12 sons were fathers of the tribes in Egypt owned much land in Canaan. God promised Abraham and his descendents, while in Canaan, all the land of Caanan forever.3. Whether this promise was valid would depend on whether Jehovah is indeed the supreme god of the universe. We believe he is and the miraculous events leading them there were indicative of this.4. If Jehovah is indeed god of the universe, conquest and not genocide would be what happened there, by a desperate people without a place to live and no one to give them land, not too unlike the conquest of the Americas by our ancestors.So no way does this teach Christians that genocide is acceptable or that Christians are to do violence for propagating Christianity.

Um, most people refer to that as a "genocide."

In 68 years, you're the first I've heard this from. Where you hangin out, Crashy? Berkeley?[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 02-19-2004]

You really do need to study something as well as the Bible, Buz. Your knowledge of history is on the weak side I'm afraid.

SO you claim that "Christianity has not taught anyone that genocide is justifiable" after trying to justify an act of genocide.And you again try to twist and spin and say that genocide is not really genocide.So you are again trying to justify genocide but this time by lying about it.

And buzsaw, where have you been hanging out, under a rock?!

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Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!

I would always be present with each one of my created animals. The ones who had a conscious awareness would be able to talk to me directly and personally. Even if they professed themselves wise enough to deny my very existance, I would still be as real as the day that I created them. (or the day that I created the process that created them.) All that they would have to do is simply ask me to love them and I would send my Spirit to comfort them. The animals without conscious awareness would have an intuitive feel for my presence. It would be the wise ones whom I would find resisting my presence more. I gave them this ability to choose, so I understand.

Well, how would you refer to the attempted systematic elimination of an ethnicity? You think that the fact that we only wanted their land makes it less bad or something? (Note that historically there were plenty of folks who advocated the wholesale destruction of the Red Man, land or no.) Where the hell do you hang out? Klan rallies?

But it was a nice ethnic cleansing, Crash. Because... y'know, we did it. And we're nice!And it was justified, because they had something that we wanted, and we took it.

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"Perhaps you should take your furs and your literal interpretations to the other side of the river."
-Anya

You people need to wake up and smell Jehovah's coffee. He's ticked at being ignored by his creatures who deny him and go after home made gods so he gets him a nation for carrying his banner on his planet in to replace the pagans. That's OT. Then in NT his son prophesies that he will come back to earth after his gospel of his kingdom is preached over the planet and all nations have fair warning. So he opens a land of the free so his people can do the ww preaching of his kingdom ww and eventually invent all kinds of stuff including the www to fulfill the other prophecies and finish the job of ww preaching of his kingdom.Besides, looky how nicely we're treating the natives now. We're making them so rich with all the favoritism perks that they'll soon be able to buy us out and have it all back.

It was thataway in the beginning before Satan entered the picture. It'll be that way again by n by. The planet's purpose of dealing with the univers's problem guy has to play out in the mean time. Better yet, I'd do the book, include a bunch of prophecies and make everything so wonderfully complex and intricately designed that no one could effectively claim it all came about spontaneously by NS, etc. That way they'd have no excuse when judgement day cometh. How boring and monotonous eternity would get being so monotheistically alone. I'd want cazillions of creatures to interact with intelligently in operating the vast universe of cazillions of things and being I'd want to create. The Holy Spirit becomes the multipresent dimension to be sent wherever and whenever to inspire, effect and direct operations. I'd make everything perfect, but then after the free agent rascal, Satan showed up I'd need to have all kinds of natural remedies for all kinds of diseases and have all kinds of natural foods for intelligent creatures to cultivate or find in the wild. I'd give the creatures all they needed to live out descent lives by following my rules and where offenses come, there'd be eternal consequenses/rewards awaiting the good and the bad. They'd have my rules and eventually the book, but then there's that old devil to deceive. My free agents would be free to choose his things or mine. The host of heaven are watching to see how it works our and good will win.

Yeah, funny thing about that. I guess unlike some I'm not inclined to accept a made-up God as justification for real-life murder and conquest. But I guess I'm odd like that, or something. Do they have reservations near where you live? If they do I guess it's really easy to look at the casinos that make a few of the Indian families rich and ignore the widespread poverty and alcoholism that exists for the majority of the reservation population. But then again why would Buz bother to look too closely? It would only contradict the things that he so desperately needs to be true.

I grew up between the Arapahoe and the Shoshone reservations in Wyo and my dad, for a few years, had a herford ranch on the Shoshoni Reservation, since no Indian cared to farm it. Indians in Wyo back then in the 50's not only got govt welfare, but sizeable oil royalties, so much for each member of the family. Consequently they took to raising kids for a livin n cane for recreation. Besides they could shoot a moose, antelope, deer or elk anytime along with the educational and other perks, none of which the whites enjoyed. The ones smart enough, sober enough and ambitious enough got well off financially, but those were not the majority. I helped dad do up the Indian neighbor's alfalfa on shares cause he was about always too drunk to do it himself. Here in NY, I get my gas on the reservation where the Indians have put the nearby whites outa business via the no tax policy. They want whitey to pay for fixin the roads, providing their welfare and all the rest but refuse to share the responsibility of the expenses. When govt moves to square up the playing field they burn tires on the freeways without being arrested, but if whitey protested government renigments perpetrated on us in such a manner, we'd immediately be arrested.Now come the casinos. These people are getting a lot richer and more powerfully influential than you think. Don't sell them short. They're on the move in the wrong direction for the good of the republic. Reservations were a big mistake. They should've been integrated into the nation. Now we have all these little nations demanding all the blessings of nationhood without having to assume the responsibilities and it aintagona work. Uh oh, I've gotten all worked up and off topic.[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 02-22-2004]