|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: So help me dog (or god, whatever!). | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
kjsimons Member Posts: 822 From: Orlando,FL Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Well I just received a jury duty notice and so I once again will probably get to be a juror. If selected I am going to try and submit a request to take a secular oath this time. The religious zealots down here started opening Orlando city council meetings and the Juror instruction sessions with the pledge of alleigence with the overly fevrent ones almost shouting "under god" !
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
LinearAq Member (Idle past 4702 days) Posts: 598 From: Pocomoke City, MD Joined: |
From here
quote:bold emphasis mine I'm not sure how the judge can ensure the requirements for a juror can be met if he has to follow the requirements of the second paragraph. Seems like a bit of a contradiction to me. Good luck in performing your civic duty. Hang the guilty bas...um...I mean...Bring to bear all your wisdom and experience in determining the disposition of the accused. Edited by LinearAq, : Emphasis for quote
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
kjsimons Member Posts: 822 From: Orlando,FL Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Wow! I wonder when that article was enacted. It clearly is unconstitutional but then again there are lots of laws that are on the books that are unconstitutional and are just not enforced. It does seem to be contradicted by the second paragraph, though the wording "Nothing shall prohibit or require ..." makes it seem that this was more to allow the reference to deities and belief.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
kjsimons Member Posts: 822 From: Orlando,FL Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
The article right after it is interesting too!
Art. 37. That no religious test ought ever to be required as a qualification for any office of profit or trust in this State, other than a declaration of belief in the existence of God; nor shall the Legislature prescribe any other oath of office than the oath prescribed by this Constitution.
Basically there will be no religious test except for this one!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22493 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
From the December 10, 1965, issue of Time Magazine (God & Courts):
Time Magazine writes: Not until this fall did the Maryland Court of Appeals finally bow to the "inevitable result" of the 1961 Torcaso decision. Then it bowed with a vengeance. The court reversed the murder conviction of a Buddhist named Lidge Schowgurow, who claimed that he had been denied equal protection while on trial for killing his wife (TIME, Oct. 22). Since Buddhists do not believe in God, he argued that members of his faith were automatically excluded from his jury. Even though no Buddhist would-be jurors were involved, the court upheld Schowgurow and voided the "belief in God" requirement for jurors throughout the state. --Percy
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Well I just received a jury duty notice and so I once again will probably get to be a juror. Again!? I've never been contact about jury duty ever, not even once. What gives?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
caffeine Member (Idle past 1051 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined: |
I'm not sure how the judge can ensure the requirements for a juror can be met if he has to follow the requirements of the second paragraph. Seems like a bit of a contradiction to me. The wording implies to me that a juror can be judged incompetent for not believing in God, but doesn't have to be. Maybe I'm misinterpreting the meaning of older texts though. If the idea of swearing to God bothers you, don't think of it as actually swearing to God. Think of it as a formalised piece of language simply meaning that you're making a serious promise. The long influence of Christianity on English and American culture means that our language is riddled with religious formulations we now use devoid of religious meaning. I don't believe in God, and yet I entreat Him to bless people when they sneeze; and cry His name in anguish when frustrated. I warn people away from schadenfreude by reminding them that only God's grace keeps us from a similar fate to those unfortunates we mock, and I entreat the aid of Heaven when things look bleak. It all seems less offensive when viewed this way, and even kind of nicely quaint. Edited by caffeine, : To give a subtopic title
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
kjsimons Member Posts: 822 From: Orlando,FL Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
I've been in Florida for the last 19 years and this is about my sixth or seventh jury duty call up. I was selected 3 times. In the previous ten years that I was eligable to be a juror (living in Michigan and then Chicago) I was only called up once for a Federal case but I wasn't selected. It's kind of interesting to watch the process and the more I see the more I don't ever want to be on trial! The Orange County Courthouse in Orlando,FL is pretty nice though and since it's a highrise the view from the jury room is beautiful.
http://www.consultwebs.com/...es/fl/orlando/604/2/occ_73.jpg
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
I've been in Florida for the last 19 years and this is about my sixth or seventh jury duty call up. I was selected 3 times. In the previous ten years that I was eligable to be a juror (living in Michigan and then Chicago) I was only called up once for a Federal case but I wasn't selected. How's the selection process work? Like I said, I've never heard anything about jury duty at all not even once (I'm 28 years old)
It's kind of interesting to watch the process and the more I see the more I don't ever want to be on trial! I think I'd make a great juror and would find it interesting.
The Orange County Courthouse in Orlando,FL is pretty nice though and since it's a highrise the view from the jury room is beautiful. How do they keep people from daydreaming as they stare out the window instead of paying attention to the case?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Rahvin Member Posts: 4042 Joined: Member Rating: 7.7 |
I think I'd make a great juror and would find it interesting. I found my own jury experience to be extremely interesting and highly rewarding. I learned a lot about human nature as well as the justice system. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Perdition Member (Idle past 3264 days) Posts: 1593 From: Wisconsin Joined: |
I was sent a Jury Duty mail when I was still 17, about 3 months before my 18th birthday, so I had to tell them I wasn't old enough and haven't received one since. I would really like to be in a jury, I would find it very interesting.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
kjsimons Member Posts: 822 From: Orlando,FL Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Well here it's off the voter registration roles and since they started the motor-voter registration (ie you can register to vote when you renew your drivers license) the supposedly have more people to select from.
You can't look out the windows in the courtroom, only in the jury deliberation room and in the hallways and possibly the judges chambers (I've never been in there so I'm not sure) can you see out.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Capt Stormfield Member Posts: 429 From: Vancouver Island Joined: |
If selected I am going to try and submit a request to take a secular oath this time. Why go out of your way? When the time comes just say something along the lines of "I wish to affirm whatever it is I'm affirming without reference to God". Make them accommodate you on the spot. Why should you have to go to some extra trouble just to exercise a constitutional right? In my view, the system that is forcing God on a citizen is wrong and sand should be thrown in their gears. By arranging in advance, you facilitate their dysfunction and help hide the problem. Maybe I'm just cantankerous, but I think it is the responsibility of the citizen to publicly mess with the system, if for no other reason than to inform and motivate others who are probably thinking the same thing. Capt.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
kjsimons Member Posts: 822 From: Orlando,FL Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
I agree with you but I don't want to invoke the courts wrath or actually delay the court preceedings. All in all the oath thing is mostly an annoyance and it pisses me off because it is clearly an infringement of my rights. Just not a major enough one for me to want to possibly be jailed on contempt of court charges if the judge gets irked at me.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Ragged Member (Idle past 3579 days) Posts: 47 From: Purgatory Joined: |
Simons,
The way I see it, the "so help me God" thing is nothing but a relic from the past. I'm not religious, but I actually kind of like this little reminder of how old the tradition is. When people yell "Shotgun!", no one is implying that they are gonna carry a shotgun to defend from robbers. All they want to sit at the front passenger seat. The same with the oath. Its there to make it clear that you must tell the truth/be objective and if you are not there will be consequences. There really is nothing religious about it (even if some people chose to believe there is). The whole process is just a part of an old tradition. Kind of like the 7th inning stretch (7th?) or like an initiation ceremony in a secret society or a fraternity. Something that makes it more fun.Surely it would be easier if there was no oath at all, but simply a document that you sign. It would be also easier if the judges didn't have to wear those priestly robes and use a gavel. They could just dress in a suit and use an electronic signal. But we keep doing it because there is something comforting about holding on to our past. The same reason why judges in England wear wigs. So I guess my point is that, to me, there is nothing offensive about it. Even if does offend some people, this God-fearing oath is the least harmful aspect of religion and not worth the effort of trying to change it, not yet anyway. Instead of trying to take God out of a courtroom statement, we should be trying to get "god" out of people’s hearts and minds. We should stop the perpetual cycle of ignorance and fanaticism in the society. Everything else will follow. Edited by Ragged, : Typos
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024