Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 53 (9179 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: Anig
Upcoming Birthdays: Theodoric
Post Volume: Total: 918,059 Year: 5,316/9,624 Month: 341/323 Week: 185/160 Day: 2/19 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Mimicry and neodarwinism
Zhimbo
Member (Idle past 6118 days)
Posts: 571
From: New Hampshire, USA
Joined: 07-28-2001


Message 185 of 188 (399205)
05-04-2007 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by MartinV
05-04-2007 11:54 AM


Re: Dawkins on mimicry
I've only sampled this thread, so I'm sure I'm repeating someone, but it certainly needs to be repeated, if so.
"Large effects" of mutation are not a problem for Darwinian evolution, at all - if by "large effect" you mean large phenotypic effect. What *IS* a problem would be the necessity of multiple simultaneous mutations. That kind of "large" mutation is not part of Neodarwinian theory.
"Large phenotypic effects" and "many simultaneous mutations" are different concepts.
"Saltationism" that proposes "large effects" of the first kind are part of neodarwinian evolutionary theory. Simple as that. No conflict, whatsoever.
"Saltationism" that proposes "large" mutations that require many *simultaneous* mutations are not part of neodarwinian theory.
Personally, I don't see the need for either of these for the evolution of mimicry, as Dawkin's explanation that you quote seems like obvious common sense to me, but even if the first kind of "saltationism" is necessary, it presents exactly ZERO challenge to contemporary evolutionary theory.
I can't imagine this hasn't been brought up in 13 pages, but there it is again.
Edited by Zhimbo, : typo fix

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by MartinV, posted 05-04-2007 11:54 AM MartinV has not replied

Zhimbo
Member (Idle past 6118 days)
Posts: 571
From: New Hampshire, USA
Joined: 07-28-2001


Message 187 of 188 (399843)
05-08-2007 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by Wounded King
05-07-2007 6:57 PM


Re: The real problem
Indeed, WK - MartinV's latest post showed no appreciation of the difference between large phenotypic effects vs. multiple mutations.
This discussion is pointless unless that distinction is recognized and understood and maintained. That's THE key point.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by Wounded King, posted 05-07-2007 6:57 PM Wounded King has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024