Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 50 (9181 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: joebialek123
Post Volume: Total: 918,278 Year: 5,535/9,624 Month: 560/323 Week: 57/143 Day: 0/19 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Does Chen's work pose a problem for ToE?
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 7 of 84 (290130)
02-24-2006 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by randman
02-24-2006 2:07 PM


No probelms at all.
This is but yet another of the exciting discoveries that are pushing our knowledge of the pre-cambrian era.
Here are a few other interesting findings that I've come across recently.
"Small Bilaterian Fossils from 40 to 55 Million Years Before the Cambrian" by Chen et al
Most major lineages of deuterostomes arose prior to the Cambrian Explosion
Daily we are gaining insight into how early life really began and yet more support for the wonders of the evolutionary process and increased likelyhood of not only the beginnings of life, but that life itself might well be a ubiquitous process.
AbE:
Add a link to a pdf of the Scientific American Article where Chen discusses early evidence for bilateral symmetry.
SciAm article itself
This message has been edited by jar, 02-24-2006 01:39 PM

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by randman, posted 02-24-2006 2:07 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by randman, posted 02-24-2006 2:52 PM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 43 of 84 (290205)
02-24-2006 7:16 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by randman
02-24-2006 6:50 PM


Absolutely no big deal.
No problem of trying to compress things into 2-3 Million years and several of the points raised in the article were already falsified, and falsified by Chen himself. In fact, just two years after the interview in the OP Chen himself discovered examples of bilateral life forms which shoved the complexity appearance back about 50 Million yeaars earlier than anyone expected. That's why the other links have been included.
The information in the OP is interesting but certainly no threat to the TOE, and also Old News.
Hopefully, there will be many more such findings, but there is nothing in anything presented so far to imply ID or to challenge the TOE.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by randman, posted 02-24-2006 6:50 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by NosyNed, posted 02-24-2006 7:25 PM jar has replied
 Message 45 by randman, posted 02-24-2006 7:31 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 46 of 84 (290213)
02-24-2006 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by NosyNed
02-24-2006 7:25 PM


Re: Worms and bugs
Something, Jar, that seems to get forgotten is, other than a couple of creatures, what Cambrian life would look like, to the untrained eye, is a bunch of very small "worms" and "bugs"
Exactly. That was one of the reasons I included the link to the pdf article that refers to some of Chen's own work from just two years after the interview referenced in the OP. IMHO it was importnat to actually see some of the pictures and the descriptions of just what they had to go through to even find some of the critters.
Here it is again for any that might have missed it.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by NosyNed, posted 02-24-2006 7:25 PM NosyNed has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Modulous, posted 02-24-2006 7:51 PM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 47 of 84 (290215)
02-24-2006 7:42 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by randman
02-24-2006 7:31 PM


Re: Absolutely no big deal.
randman writes:
Then, why did they insist otherwise jar?
Old news randman. A lot has been learned since the interview you link to in the OP and Chen and Chia-Wei Li have been right there leading the way.
To repeat, "Absolutely no big deal."
BUT:
as China opens up and we get to examine more of the shales from Yunnan and Guizhou Provences we may be able to push things back even further.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by randman, posted 02-24-2006 7:31 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by randman, posted 02-24-2006 7:45 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 51 of 84 (290219)
02-24-2006 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by randman
02-24-2006 7:45 PM


Re: Absolutely no big deal.
You gotta ask them. But Chen, in his later discoveries HAS provided the evidence that shows evolutionary theory can explain what is seen in the Cambrian. He found evidence for bilaterality going back atleast 50 Million Years earlier than we had seen so far.
Sorry, but gotta repeat.
Absolutely no big deal.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by randman, posted 02-24-2006 7:45 PM randman has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 74 of 84 (290475)
02-25-2006 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by randman
02-25-2006 7:36 PM


still can't get it right.
But not to belabor the point....for me, the issue that soft-bodied creatures are well-preserved in fossils is major one that I think can be useful on other threads.
That is not what ANY of the papers referenced so far have said. What was said is that under some very unusual conditions soft bodied creatures may be well preserved.
Guess what, that's been known for a long time, at least a decade or more. But the particular environment where this happens is also pretty rare and we haven't found all that many of the resulting shale deposits.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by randman, posted 02-25-2006 7:36 PM randman has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024