Has evolution been proven ?

Hi Quetzal,Sorry to appear to be gone - I have been busy in the garden and not had time to do this post justice. As time is short, I will respond to the easy part today and try to finish up tomorrow.First, to the other's who posted;A part of the world which exists but can not be described or measured: the taste of salt.Regarding Darwin statement, I read on page 175 (in chapter 8) "If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down."I will extend this tomorrow but I think it applies to all of evolution, not just selection (unless we are looking for a multiple-out).We agree on EvC001, I think. However, feelings do have an important place in relationships. They can be falsified but are tested over time much like data.In EvC003 I see a similar scope of agreement amoung Creationists: that God created (organized) Adam and Eve and that they are our first parents. I do not follow all the lines of creationists so am not an expert. I am aware of Steven Gould's punctuated equilibrium which seems 180 degrees out from Darwin - but maybe not.In EvC004 I am setting up for the possibility that untestable does not mean not real (as in the taste of salt). Just as scientist make their rules of evidence, God has made His. Under His rules, He is completely discoverable.I'll come back tomorrow (or at least soon) on EvC002.Thanks for the nudge back,Very best regards,Bob, Alice, and Eve

Tipler, that's the guy. I was wrong about him being a computer scientist, I guess.Thanks for the correction.

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A part of the world which exists but can not be described or measured: the taste of salt.

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I see no reason why the taste of salt can't be described. In fact, the reason we call something 'salty' is because we know what it tastes like. (Unless we're talking semi-meiosis, which is tasteless.)And in fact, we know which part of the human tongue responds to bitter, and sweet, etc. So it's a testable property. And the level of salinity is measurable.I think you need to come up with a better example.regards,
Esteban "Bad Taste" Hambre

I don't know if this will help, but I also don't know how long thissite is going to keep it up, so try to listen to it as soon as possible and I'll just give you it and post a more complete reply at a later time.Life Beyond the Grave

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"The Astonishing Hypothesis is that you -- your joys and your sorrows, your memories and your ambitions, your sense of personal identity and free will, are in fact no more than the behavior of a vast assembly of nerve cells and their associated molecules" -Francis Crick in The Astonishing Hypothesis

In high school I, BSM, "invented" just such a materiality, which I called 'the gravitational wave theory of the mind' and got credit in both Physics and Chemistry classes describing this but this post was about you and not me. Gravational solitons were purported by me to interact with neuron lipid side chains in channel proteins to alter inonic flow and served as itermedicay (to soul in your case) without Sheldrakes' so-called "morphic resonance". It was a bit fanciful but offered me acces to onology unparralled by seasoned scientists at Cornell.

The issue of art over science is a CONSEQUENCE of a falire to eat fruit rollups for desert at the evolutionist's high table by DENYING that there is a colorless seqenunce back in the evo theory. There is and to say otherwise as you did remands that my lover will assert rape of me for not knowing the same. This is actually impersonal I do not mean any offense. Yes an artist might better evolutionary theory tommarrow by some insight on connectivity left undone by dull phd collectivities but this will only enlargen the series sequenctionally. Let us all hope in and out for the best. Brad. And Frog it all crashs any way...

I knew the BIBLE was SO because this lover DID read the BIBLE with me and THEN asserted That I raped her when all that she said before we were lovers was that I raped language. That however was clearly "flesh" which neither she nor I can deny no matter the artistic or lack of it on my side differences. This could explain one child for her but not two from me. Logic and an ability to read is all that is needed. I take it that that might have come to pass for Soul Fire.

Whoa there, thats alot of big words and I'm afraid my vocabulary is sorely lacking, if there is a dumbed-down way you could explain all of that, then it would do me alot more good. What exactly are "neuron lipid side chains", or "inonic flow"?

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"The Astonishing Hypothesis is that you -- your joys and your sorrows, your memories and your ambitions, your sense of personal identity and free will, are in fact no more than the behavior of a vast assembly of nerve cells and their associated molecules" -Francis Crick in The Astonishing Hypothesis

For example, in the Matthew, Mark, and Luke crucifiction accounts, the last supper is a Passover meal. In John, however, Jesus is dead before Passover.Well, I recently overheard someone talking about how the year that Jesus was crucified was "different" than usual in the fact that there was two passover meals or something like that. I know only that and will get back to you with the full story as soon as I can (Which may take a while). But in the mean time, feel free to supply me with any more contradictions you want.

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"The Astonishing Hypothesis is that you -- your joys and your sorrows, your memories and your ambitions, your sense of personal identity and free will, are in fact no more than the behavior of a vast assembly of nerve cells and their associated molecules" -Francis Crick in The Astonishing Hypothesis

If the only evidence offered in support for that is that the two accounts don't agree, then it's just an ad-hoc hypothesis, and the only reason to believe it is if you assume the Bible has to be true.

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Well, I recently overheard someone talking about how the year that Jesus was crucified was "different" than usual in the fact that there was two passover meals or something like that. I know only that and will get back to you with the full story as soon as I can (Which may take a while).

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I have never found any historical evidence for a year with two passovers.The ONLY place I have ever seen references to this idea was where people were trying to explain away the contradiction.Maybe you will have better luck, but I doubt it.That claim smacks of a desperate attempt to revise history rather than admit that John changed the timing of Jesus' crucifiction.Of course, John changed the entire feel of the crucifiction story, as it was clear at that late date that Jesus wasn't actually coming back right away to lead the Jews to military victory over their enemies.By the time John was written, Jesus' death was meant to save our souls after we died, not the literal lives of the downtrodden people he promised redemption to in person, which is the message of the other three gospels.

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But in the mean time, feel free to supply me with any more contradictions you want.

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No, this one is my favorite.I'll wait.

Would you mind giving me the exact scriptures of each book that say Jesus was dead either beofore or after the Passover?

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"The Astonishing Hypothesis is that you -- your joys and your sorrows, your memories and your ambitions, your sense of personal identity and free will, are in fact no more than the behavior of a vast assembly of nerve cells and their associated molecules" -Francis Crick in The Astonishing Hypothesis

Read all of Matthew 26, and here is an important verse:26:17
Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?Read all of Mark 14, and here is an important verse:14:12
And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?Read all of Luke 22, and here are two important verses:22:7
Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.22:8
And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.Now, the account in John is radically different than the other three. Read all of John 19, and here are several important verses:(Pilate is speaking here)19:14
And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!19:30
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.(emphasis added by me)19:31
The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.John seemd to want to change the story in order to frame Jesus as a symbolic "Passover lamb" which God in heaven was sacrificing for the spititual salvation of humankind.This is a significant departure from the other three gospels, as I explained in a previous post.[This message has been edited by schrafinator, 04-08-2004]

The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.There is no departure from the other three gospels at all, when John says "the preparation" he is refering to the Preparation Day, that is, the day before the Sabbath. This has nothing to do with the Passover, as the Sabbath is the last day of the week of creation when God took a rest after creating the world, to set an example for us to do the same.

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"The Astonishing Hypothesis is that you -- your joys and your sorrows, your memories and your ambitions, your sense of personal identity and free will, are in fact no more than the behavior of a vast assembly of nerve cells and their associated molecules" -Francis Crick in The Astonishing Hypothesis

Except the regular weekly sabbath isn't a High Day. The High Day sabbaths are annual sabbaths.
The first and seventh day of Unleavened Bread
Shavuof
Rosh Hashanah
Yom Kippur
Succoth and
Hannukka

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Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"