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Author Topic:   Criticizing neo-Darwinism
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 4001
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


(3)
Message 290 of 309 (594011)
12-01-2010 7:14 AM
Reply to: Message 284 by Bolder-dash
12-01-2010 1:24 AM


A Statement from the Atheist Front
Bolder-dash writes:
What if the modern model of evolutionary theory completely lost the random mutation aspect at its core or the selfish gene? ... Every atheist on the planet needs that core intact or there is nothing left to hang onto.
This particular atheist isn't hanging onto anything--the TOE could be falsified today, and that would have no impact on my atheism.
Atheism flourished long before Darwin shared his insights. I became an atheist as a boy confronted with the moral horror show and just-so stories that comprised the religions I encountered, long before I learned about evolution.
Your faux astonishment that WK says the modern synthesis does not claim to explain the entire history of evolution shows clearly who "hangs on" to a collapsing intellectual position. WK's statement is appropriate for any scientific theory: we cannot know everything, and it is important to keep a firm grip on that tentativity.
Scientists are professionally and philosophically prepared to abandon or refine falsified hypotheses as new data dictates: that is part of the very definition of science. IC critics of evolution look for evidential ammo in data from scientists as well, because the IC camp can produce no data of its own.
You, on the other hand, appear to have no tentativity at all, merely certainties. Apparently, you live in a world of faith rather than a world of evidence. To you, refining a theory with new data and observations reveals its weakness; accusing others of dishonesty while mischaracterizing their position displays your position's strength.
I assure you that atheists around the world tonight sleep snug in their beds with nary a thought given to the state of the modern synthesis. Should the TOE be falsified, atheists (we really aren't the cling-to-old-ideas type) wouldn't start pouring into churches or collapsing in cognitive dissonant fugue.
We'd be looking at new data and theories, calmly and tentatively, depending on interest level. Amazingly, many atheists don't give any more thought to evolution than they do to calculus or physics; evolution didn't make them atheists, and a collapse of the modern synthesis wouldn't make them creationists. Most atheists who are interested would be fascinated, however, because the falsification of a major scientific theory moves us closer to a clear understanding of the world.
But it appears that, no matter what, you would still be the screamer on the soapbox, clinging to his certainties and accusations, waiting for scientists to discover something else you can misinterpret or mischaracterize.

Dost thou prate, rogue?
-Cassio
Real things always push back.
-William James

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by Bolder-dash, posted 12-01-2010 1:24 AM Bolder-dash has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 294 by Bolder-dash, posted 12-01-2010 10:39 AM Omnivorous has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 4001
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 299 of 309 (594315)
12-03-2010 12:09 AM
Reply to: Message 294 by Bolder-dash
12-01-2010 10:39 AM


Re: A Statement from the Atheist Front
Bolder-dash writes:
Omnivorous writes:
This particular atheist isn't hanging onto anything--the TOE could be falsified today, and that would have no impact on my atheism.
Its ok with me if you want to hang on to your beliefs even if the data said otherwise. But don't accuse me of being the one lacking an open mind.
I'm not accusing you of lacking an open mind--I'm observing that you lack a rational mind.
Understanding that the theory of evolution explains the history of life on earth has become the sine qua non of a well educated, rational person.
People converse with you for the same reason little boys provoke a drunk: "Poke him with a stick--he says the most amazing crap!"
So you curse and shout to draw attention to your arguments, confident of their power, but rational people look at your frenzied incoherence the same way they look at the shopping cart guy who talks to Allah.
Evolution deniers are blood and chicken feather-covered geeks at the modern intellectual feast: we have to talk to them, but we don't have to humor their appetites. Please complete your typical cycle here quickly--as soon as you achieve the suspension or banning martyrdom you desire so much, we can hose the place out.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by Bolder-dash, posted 12-01-2010 10:39 AM Bolder-dash has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 300 by Bolder-dash, posted 12-03-2010 12:39 AM Omnivorous has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 4001
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 302 of 309 (594334)
12-03-2010 1:29 AM
Reply to: Message 300 by Bolder-dash
12-03-2010 12:39 AM


The snark stops here
{I'm letting Dr Adequate get by this time, just because that seems to be exceptionally eloquent snark (still, he is pushing his luck). But no snark dog pile. Further snark may trigger more extreme AMoose reactions. - Adminnemooseus}
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Hide and comment.
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Change subtitle.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 300 by Bolder-dash, posted 12-03-2010 12:39 AM Bolder-dash has not replied

  
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