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Author Topic:   Evolution For Whatever, etc...
johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5611 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 31 of 37 (82014)
02-01-2004 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Trixie
02-01-2004 4:08 PM


Re: Whoa there, Whatever!!
Its interesting you say evolutionists don't believe the chimp or man evolved one from the other, but that they believe there is a common ancestor, its possible both were created without a common ancestor, the genesis event, think what going to happen is your going to have is the different creatures point to different common ancestors, not to the same common ancestors, supporting the different biblical kinds of creatures, etc...
P.S. I'm going to take your advice, to chill out a bit, and well its time to watch the Super bowl, etc...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Trixie, posted 02-01-2004 4:08 PM Trixie has replied

Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22479
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 32 of 37 (82016)
02-01-2004 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Trixie
02-01-2004 4:08 PM


Re: Whoa there, Whatever!!
This is an excellent post, but you might want to consider who you're talking to. I'm reminded of this old joke:
A plumber wrote to the Bureau of Standards saying that he had found hydrochloric acid good for cleaning out clogged drains. The Bureau write back 'The efficacy of hydrochloric acid is indisputable, but chlorine residue is incompatible with metallic permanence'. The plumber replied that he was glad the Bureau agreed. The Bureau tried again, writing 'We cannot assume responsibility for the production of toxic and noxious residues with hydrochloric acid, and suggest that you use an alternate procedure'. The plumber again said that he was glad the Bureau agreed with him. Finally, the Bureau wrote to the plumber 'Don't use hydrochloric acid; it eats hell out of the pipes'.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Trixie, posted 02-01-2004 4:08 PM Trixie has replied

Replies to this message:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 755 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 33 of 37 (82060)
02-01-2004 11:36 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Trixie
02-01-2004 4:08 PM


Re: Whoa there, Whatever!!
Good, clear post, Trixie!
It remains to be seen where the similarities and differences lie, but I think we'll find that some genes have huge differences and others have very little or no difference - it'll be "lumpy".
You might look at Clark, et al., Science, v 302 pp 1960-1963 for an early peek at exactly some of those differences - and you'll also be far more able than I to get through the jargon. The abstract:
Even though human and chimpanzee gene sequences are nearly 99% identical, sequence comparisons can nevertheless be highly informative in identifying biologically important changes that have occurred since our ancestral lineages diverged. We analyzed alignments of 7645 chimpanzee gene sequences to their human and mouse orthologs. These three-species sequence alignments allowed us to identify genes undergoing natural selection along the human and chimp lineage by fitting models that include parameters specifying rates of synonymous and nonsynonymous nucleotide substitution. This evolutionary approach revealed an informative set of genes with significantly different patterns of substitution on the human lineage compared with the chimpanzee and mouse lineages. Partitions of genes into inferred biological classes identified accelerated evolution in several functional classes, including olfaction and nuclear transport. In addition to suggesting adaptive physiological differences between chimps and humans, human-accelerated genes are significantly more likely to underlie major known Mendelian disorders.

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mark24
Member (Idle past 5215 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 34 of 37 (82086)
02-02-2004 7:32 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by johnfolton
02-01-2004 5:19 PM


Re: Whoa there, Whatever!!
Whatever,
Message 9, please.
Mark

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Trixie
Member (Idle past 3726 days)
Posts: 1011
From: Edinburgh
Joined: 01-03-2004


Message 35 of 37 (82200)
02-02-2004 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by johnfolton
02-01-2004 5:19 PM


Re: Whoa there, Whatever!!
NO, NO, NO!!! You can't say they had different common ancestors for the very reason that the ancestor is either common or different, not both!!! Sheesh!!
At the risk of unraveling the fog that I've managed to knit so far, consider this. Why is it that a protein which nourishes the developing embryo in the egg, vitellogenin, shows common stretches of DNA sequence? I'm not talking chimps and humans here, I'm talking frogs, chickens, lizards, bees, the banana prawn (it does exist, honest, I've just pulled the sequence out on a Blast!), zebrafish, killifish, fruit flies, silkworms. The unusual thing about this protein is that it isn't an enzyme so doesn't need to conserve (keep unchanged) any active site. It's a food storage protein so it can mutate at pretty high rates without the same deleterious effects as mutation in the active site of an enzyme. Now, why on earth should the gene for the protein in the silkworm have common stretches with the gene in frogs or chickens? Any chance that one may have been based on the other? How about them actually evolving?
Whatever, I'm sorry to say that your general grasp of any science subject is atrocious, you're throwing in scientific terms that you don't know the meaning of, but you think sound good. Some of your posts have made me think, although maybe not in the way that you wanted me to. I can see why the idea of the Creator using a single blueprint to create everything is attractive to you - it's the only way you can look evidence for evolution in the face, yet still hold on to your "theory". You're now trying to shoehorn evolution into the Creation story and the ideas get wilder and wilder, just like your "fountains of the deep" and the ark!
Do you really want to learn anything here? We're willing to try to teach you, but only if you can refrain from posting contradictory ideas which purport to support each other. If you can't see your own contradictions, you'll never see the contradictions in the creationist websites that you believe as if they were Gospel (pun intended). I've already pointed out fundamental and fatal flaws in the hydroplate theory as it is written now, yet you either can't or won't see them. Sadly everyone else can, so you're fooling no-one but yourself.
If you want to be taken seriously, then you have to approach this with an open mind, neither holding to one belief or another and see where the evidence leads you - good evidence, that it, not pseudoscience written by people who can't see the holes in their own theories.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by johnfolton, posted 02-01-2004 5:19 PM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
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Trixie
Member (Idle past 3726 days)
Posts: 1011
From: Edinburgh
Joined: 01-03-2004


Message 36 of 37 (82201)
02-02-2004 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Percy
02-01-2004 5:28 PM


Re: Whoa there, Whatever!!
Yeah, I know, Percy, but it's worth a try. Click, click, click, it's me knitting needles.....oops, dropped a stitch!

This message is a reply to:
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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5611 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 37 of 37 (82286)
02-02-2004 7:08 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Trixie
02-02-2004 4:06 PM


Trixie, It does work for me, God knitting "them" creatures, I've filed it all under Intelligent Design, etc...
P.S. I'm chilling out, not planning on posting, but thanks for your imput, that your still looking for a common ancestor, actually that your still looking, is supporting Intelligent Design, and the creationists biblical kinds(different common ancestors), etc...
[This message has been edited by whatever, 02-02-2004]

This message is a reply to:
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