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Author Topic:   Sex and the Sex drive
redstang281
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 36 (4315)
02-12-2002 10:28 PM


Evolutionists, what evolved first, sex or the sex drive?

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by toff, posted 02-13-2002 2:45 AM redstang281 has replied
 Message 3 by doctrbill, posted 02-15-2002 11:04 PM redstang281 has not replied
 Message 6 by doctrbill, posted 02-16-2002 1:04 PM redstang281 has not replied

  
toff
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 36 (4365)
02-13-2002 2:45 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by redstang281
02-12-2002 10:28 PM


quote:
Originally posted by redstang281:
Evolutionists, what evolved first, sex or the sex drive?
Sex. So much for THAT thread.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by redstang281, posted 02-12-2002 10:28 PM redstang281 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by redstang281, posted 02-16-2002 6:27 PM toff has not replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 3 of 36 (4669)
02-15-2002 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by redstang281
02-12-2002 10:28 PM


quote:
Originally posted by redstang281:
Evolutionists, what evolved first, sex or the sex drive?
Creationists - According to Genesis chapter one, Which was created first, male or female?
------------------
db

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by redstang281, posted 02-12-2002 10:28 PM redstang281 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by TrueCreation, posted 02-15-2002 11:30 PM doctrbill has replied

  
TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 36 (4671)
02-15-2002 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by doctrbill
02-15-2002 11:04 PM


"Creationists - According to Genesis chapter one, Which was created first, male or female?"
--I dunno, that one's a toughy!
------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by doctrbill, posted 02-15-2002 11:04 PM doctrbill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by doctrbill, posted 02-16-2002 12:36 AM TrueCreation has not replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 5 of 36 (4680)
02-16-2002 12:36 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by TrueCreation
02-15-2002 11:30 PM


quote:
Question posted by doctrbill:
"Creationists - According to Genesis chapter one, Which was created first, male or female?"

quote:
Answer posted by TrueCreation:
--I dunno, that one's a toughy!

That's it? That's your response?
------------------
db

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by TrueCreation, posted 02-15-2002 11:30 PM TrueCreation has not replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 6 of 36 (4705)
02-16-2002 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by redstang281
02-12-2002 10:28 PM


quote:
redstang281:
Evolutionists, what evolved first, sex or the sex drive?
Creationists - Why do males have nipples?
------------------
If God wanted nudists,
We'd be born naked.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by redstang281, posted 02-12-2002 10:28 PM redstang281 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by KingPenguin, posted 02-16-2002 3:42 PM doctrbill has not replied
 Message 9 by TrueCreation, posted 02-16-2002 4:06 PM doctrbill has replied

  
KingPenguin
Member (Idle past 7883 days)
Posts: 286
From: Freeland, Mi USA
Joined: 02-04-2002


Message 7 of 36 (4726)
02-16-2002 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by doctrbill
02-16-2002 1:04 PM


[QUOTE]Originally posted by doctrbill:
[b] [QUOTE]redstang281:
Creationists - Why do males have nipples?
[/B][/QUOTE]
can anyone explain that? i was wondering as well. theres like no reason for them. it would seem that God tried to make men and women as alike as he could get them.
------------------
"Overspecialize and you breed in weakness" -"Major" Motoko Kusanagi
[This message has been edited by KingPenguin, 02-16-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by doctrbill, posted 02-16-2002 1:04 PM doctrbill has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by mark24, posted 02-16-2002 4:05 PM KingPenguin has replied

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 5195 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 8 of 36 (4729)
02-16-2002 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by KingPenguin
02-16-2002 3:42 PM


quote:
Originally posted by KingPenguin:
can anyone explain that? i was wondering as well. theres like no reason for them. it would seem that God tried to make men and women as alike as he could get them.

God gave men nipples to give us something to do with the other hand
Seriously, early developement of foetus' are anatomically identical, theres no testes, ovaries, penis, or vagina. There are however nipples. These "features" (only a man could call them features) remain as sexual developement continues, with sexual organs then becoming evident. Females haxe two X chromosomes (XX) whilst males are XY. The Y chromosome doesn't do much other than push the development of structures in other directions. If you like, the nipples are female, & are on the Y chromosome, WHICH MALES ALSO POSSESS, but the true sex XX XY differences are not expressed until after the nipples are formed.
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by KingPenguin, posted 02-16-2002 3:42 PM KingPenguin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by TrueCreation, posted 02-16-2002 4:09 PM mark24 has replied
 Message 12 by KingPenguin, posted 02-16-2002 4:52 PM mark24 has replied

  
TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 36 (4730)
02-16-2002 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by doctrbill
02-16-2002 1:04 PM


"Why do Males have nipples?"
--Nipples for both male and females in humans are a sexual stimulant, did God not create sex so it would be pleasurable? Also this of AiG:
AiG - http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/feedback/negative10-23-2000.asp
quote:
Human embryos are sexually dimorphic at first (i.e. contain characteristics of both sexes), because they all have basically the same genetic information, and this information is expressed as efficiently as possible as the embryo develops. This is design economy. For example, in all human embryos, at first both the mllerian duct system (female) and the wolffian duct system (male) develop, because both sexes have the genetic information for these structures. Incidentally, this refutes the urban myth that human embryos ‘start off female’. The subsequent differences are the result of designed chemical signals that control the expression of the information. E.g., a gene set usually found on the Y chromosome controls the levels of testosterone and dihydroxytestosterone (DHT) secretion. Above a certain level, these hormones suppress the development of the mllerian duct system and promote the wolffian duct system, so the embryo takes on masculine characteristics. Below a certain hormone level, the opposite happens, and the embryo takes on female characteristics.
------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by doctrbill, posted 02-16-2002 1:04 PM doctrbill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by doctrbill, posted 02-16-2002 7:46 PM TrueCreation has replied

  
TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 36 (4731)
02-16-2002 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by mark24
02-16-2002 4:05 PM


"Seriously, early developement of foetus' are anatomically identical, theres no testes, ovaries, penis, or vagina. There are however nipples. These "features" (only a man could call them features) remain as sexual developement continues, with sexual organs then becoming evident. Females haxe two X chromosomes (XX) whilst males are XY. The Y chromosome doesn't do much other than push the development of structures in other directions. If you like, the nipples are female, & are on the Y chromosome, WHICH MALES ALSO POSSESS, but the true sex XX XY differences are not expressed until after the nipples are formed."
--Thanx, I was going to include something on this, but my first question was going to be where is the information condensed(is it located in XY chromosomes) before the human fetus grows or something along that line.
------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by mark24, posted 02-16-2002 4:05 PM mark24 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by mark24, posted 02-16-2002 4:31 PM TrueCreation has not replied

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 5195 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 11 of 36 (4735)
02-16-2002 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by TrueCreation
02-16-2002 4:09 PM


quote:
Originally posted by TrueCreation:
"Seriously, early developement of foetus' are anatomically identical, theres no testes, ovaries, penis, or vagina. There are however nipples. These "features" (only a man could call them features) remain as sexual developement continues, with sexual organs then becoming evident. Females haxe two X chromosomes (XX) whilst males are XY. The Y chromosome doesn't do much other than push the development of structures in other directions. If you like, the nipples are female, & are on the Y chromosome, WHICH MALES ALSO POSSESS, but the true sex XX XY differences are not expressed until after the nipples are formed."
--Thanx, I was going to include something on this, but my first question was going to be where is the information condensed(is it located in XY chromosomes) before the human fetus grows or something along that line.

Good question, the very thought occurred to me. My information differs from AiGs, there is no sexual anatomical difference between males & females for 10-15 weeks after conception.
http://www.sciencenet.org.uk/database/Biology/Original/b00013d.html
"Both boys and girls appear to be anatomically identical for the first 10-15 weeks after conception. By that time the tissue that eventually forms the nipples is already formed. Later, boys and girls start to develop differently and continue to develop their sexual characteristics after birth. They both retain nipples but only females develop breasts at puberty. "
I'm guessing now, I would say the information to form nipples is somewhere on the other 22 chromosome pairs, but the "start" gene to turn those nipples into something that can express milk is on the X chromosome. If there is no expression of the X-Y chromosomes before 10-15 weeks, that is.
This begs a larger question, & as I'm in need of reading material soon, this could be the subject. How much information is actually on the X & Y chromosomes? Is it just the sex "Hox" genes that direct sexual developement, or the genes that are causal to sex characteristics as well? Perhaps (& probably) a mixture.
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by TrueCreation, posted 02-16-2002 4:09 PM TrueCreation has not replied

  
KingPenguin
Member (Idle past 7883 days)
Posts: 286
From: Freeland, Mi USA
Joined: 02-04-2002


Message 12 of 36 (4737)
02-16-2002 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by mark24
02-16-2002 4:05 PM


quote:
Originally posted by mark24:
God gave men nipples to give us something to do with the other hand
Seriously, early developement of foetus' are anatomically identical, theres no testes, ovaries, penis, or vagina. There are however nipples. These "features" (only a man could call them features) remain as sexual developement continues, with sexual organs then becoming evident. Females haxe two X chromosomes (XX) whilst males are XY. The Y chromosome doesn't do much other than push the development of structures in other directions. If you like, the nipples are female, & are on the Y chromosome, WHICH MALES ALSO POSSESS, but the true sex XX XY differences are not expressed until after the nipples are formed.
Mark

lol lol. just a thought from me but women being created from men would give explanation for them having XX chromosomes and men having XY chromosomes. they were created from only one rib of man and have only one chromosome of man. makes sense?
------------------
"Overspecialize and you breed in weakness" -"Major" Motoko Kusanagi

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by mark24, posted 02-16-2002 4:05 PM mark24 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by mark24, posted 02-16-2002 5:27 PM KingPenguin has replied

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 5195 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 13 of 36 (4739)
02-16-2002 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by KingPenguin
02-16-2002 4:52 PM


quote:
Originally posted by KingPenguin:
lol lol. just a thought from me but women being created from men would give explanation for them having XX chromosomes and men having XY chromosomes. they were created from only one rib of man and have only one chromosome of man. makes sense?

Not at all. Why is there a chromosome difference on pair 23 between males & females? & how did getting females from a rib, change the Y to an X? The rib had XY, not XX. How does ripping a rib out constitute genetic manipulation, dividing chromosomes?
People do have bones removed, for medical reasons, & I assure you, all chromosome pairs are intact.
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by KingPenguin, posted 02-16-2002 4:52 PM KingPenguin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by KingPenguin, posted 02-16-2002 5:46 PM mark24 has not replied

  
KingPenguin
Member (Idle past 7883 days)
Posts: 286
From: Freeland, Mi USA
Joined: 02-04-2002


Message 14 of 36 (4743)
02-16-2002 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by mark24
02-16-2002 5:27 PM


quote:
Originally posted by mark24:
Not at all. Why is there a chromosome difference on pair 23 between males & females? & how did getting females from a rib, change the Y to an X? The rib had XY, not XX. How does ripping a rib out constitute genetic manipulation, dividing chromosomes?
People do have bones removed, for medical reasons, & I assure you, all chromosome pairs are intact.
Mark

i was of course speaking metaphorically.
------------------
"Overspecialize and you breed in weakness" -"Major" Motoko Kusanagi

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by mark24, posted 02-16-2002 5:27 PM mark24 has not replied

  
redstang281
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 36 (4754)
02-16-2002 6:27 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by toff
02-13-2002 2:45 AM


quote:
Originally posted by toff:
quote:
Originally posted by redstang281:
Evolutionists, what evolved first, sex or the sex drive?
Sex. So much for THAT thread.

In nature there is a strong desire to want sex. Why would anything have sex without first having the desire for sex?
Also, reproducing creates more competition for food. Why not just evolve to live forever?
I could possibly see this question being answered with "that is something we are still evolving towards." If that is the answer from an evolutionist standpoint then why would the earliest life forms live shorter life spans? What sets that limitation of life to begin with?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by toff, posted 02-13-2002 2:45 AM toff has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by nator, posted 02-17-2002 1:28 PM redstang281 has not replied

  
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