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Author Topic:   Is there really such a thing as a beneficial mutation?
Hawks
Member (Idle past 6260 days)
Posts: 41
Joined: 08-20-2006


Message 5 of 223 (342880)
08-24-2006 12:06 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
08-23-2006 9:07 PM


So I have a hard time accepting that whatever produced the incredible coordinated functions and variations of living things has to resort to such trade-offs in dealing with disease, or explaining how so many genetic diseases keep occurring, if the ToE is correct, and evolution really is the amazing system that brought about all the amazing perfections that are obvious despite the errors.
If ToE is true and genetic variation is created (more or less) randomly, then we would expect to see “trade-offs” such as genetic diseases. Coupled with our knowledge of how genetic material is inherited, a total absense of negative mutations would actually be evidence AGAINST evolution.
Or, is it possible too that there is a kind of "mutation" that IS beneficial, that is in fact normal or natural or part of the normal way things reproduce, that is predictable?
Anything's possible. But if you want to show this scientifically, you will have to offer some positive evidence that this is actually the case - mere speculation is not enough.

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 Message 1 by Faith, posted 08-23-2006 9:07 PM Faith has not replied

  
Hawks
Member (Idle past 6260 days)
Posts: 41
Joined: 08-20-2006


Message 88 of 223 (343149)
08-24-2006 9:30 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Faith
08-24-2006 7:47 PM


I think what is needed here is a more comprehensive idea of what is accepted as a beneficial mutation in humans, some discussion of the beneficial mutations of the sort Crashfrog brought up, the one that prevents cholesterolemia for instance.
The actual definition of a beneficial mutation has been given several times already. What would you actually constitute as evidence that any given mutation(s) has/have been beneficial? Would examples from the prokaryotic world suffice? Probably not as you seem to want to limit this discussion to humans - a severe constraint given how much research is being/has been conducted on organisms both prokaryotic and eukaryotic. Would comparison of genetic data from various species do it? Or is the only evidence you will accept that which at a quick glance is obvious and intuitively shows a positive effect?

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 Message 80 by Faith, posted 08-24-2006 7:47 PM Faith has not replied

  
Hawks
Member (Idle past 6260 days)
Posts: 41
Joined: 08-20-2006


Message 195 of 223 (343504)
08-26-2006 3:49 AM
Reply to: Message 194 by Faith
08-26-2006 3:23 AM


Faith, given that this is a science forum, any evidence cited as evidence for beneficial mutations should by necessity be scientific evidence. Hence, (1) any definition for beneficial mutation must also by necessity be scientific and (2) any evidence presented would not have to be limited to direct observation, but can also include hypothesis/theories. Your rejection of evolution seems to stem from your rejection (or misunderstanding) of science. While there is no absolute reason why science should be the only way to examine the world, it is the one being dealt with here. Might I suggest that if you wish to pursue the topic of this thread using non-scientific definitions/standards of evidence that you start a new thread in another forum. Or alternatively, that you start one in the science forum questioning the validity of scientific knowledge as such.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by Faith, posted 08-26-2006 3:23 AM Faith has not replied

  
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