SHIFTING THE BURDEN OF PROOF.

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Well Messenjah given that we have observed numerous Kuiper belt objects (QB1 (1992), FW (1993) were the first two though there are many others) it would seem obvious that the Kuiper belts exsistence is not in any real doubt any more....

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It is also strange that those objects are binary. I know the kuiper belt probably exists. The Oort cloud is very questionable though.------------------
"I AM THE MESSENJAH"holla at me for any reason at: messenjahjr@yahoo.com

There are comets with periods over 6000 years? Explain please and show evidence of this?------------------
"I AM THE MESSENJAH"holla at me for any reason at: messenjahjr@yahoo.com

messenjaH Biologist generally don't know much about astronomy...
You are christen do you know everything about the Hindu Religion?(not that its a real good comparison because neither religion has good facts to back it up but still....) so you need to understand most of US here are either Biologist ,Students, or Very knowledgeable about life.
Do you Think Science is Just one Big thing that everyone Involved Knows everything? Why should a Biologist Know alot about astronmy?
And even if we did do you think one Mystery would discard the mounds of evidence?

Well to be fair I can't think of one off of the top of my head but Hale-Bopp and Hyakutake have orbital periods of about 4,000 years. While not over 6,000 years per se its certainly the correct order of magnitude....As to how the periods are calculated astronomers take detailed measurements of the comets motion while it is visible, they then work out the eccentricity of its orbit. For all intents and purposes observed orbits will always be either hyperbolic (a one time pass) e > 1 or the orbit will be elliptical 0 < e < 1.....(While circular and parabolic orbits are in theory possible the odds are rather heavilly stacked against them)....If the orbit is in fact an ellipse the period of the orbit can be calculated using Keplers laws....

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It is also strange that those objects are binary. I know the kuiper belt probably exists. The Oort cloud is very questionable though.

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Binary?WTF?Explain please.....Oh and the Oort cloud is only questionable if you decide to throw orbital data of long period comets and their implications out of the window.....Think of it this way if I'm watching out of my window and I keep seeing balls flying past my window I don't need to see the kids playing cricket (or baseball for the yanks) to infer their exsistence...If I was really keen of eye and brain I could probably even watch the trajectories of the balls and tell you where the batsman was standing...The inference of the Oort cloud works in the same way, we can't observe the origin (see the batsman) but we can measure the trajectory of the comets (cricket balls) and figure out where they came from (the location of the batsman)....In the case of long period comets the scource seems to be a spheical shell of interior radius of 30,000,000,000,000 Km and an exterior radius of about 3 light years.....Now its true that in the same way that those cricket balls might have some other explanation so might long period comets. However the hypothesis of a batsman seems more reasonable than the possibility that the cricket balls are spontaneously popping into exsistence with velocity components that imply a common origin...By the same standard the Oort cloud is a more reasonable interpretation of the data than "the Great Galactic Goat keeps farting frozen chunks of ice at us", or at least untill we observe a comet excreting Great Galactic Goat......

• DC85 writes:

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  messenja H Biologist generally don't know much about astronomy...
  You are christen do you know everything about the Hindu Religion?(not that its a real good comparison because neither religion has good facts to back it up but still....)

The basis of Judea-Christian beliefs do not hinge, partially or primarily, on any aspect of the general timeline concerning the existence and properties of Hinduism. Therefore, you would be correct in stating that this is not an accurate demonstration for the theory surrounding the Oort cloud, which, as of yet, as no final supporting evidence as to its existence, as it pertains to evolution.

• DC85 writes:

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  so you need to understand most of US here are either Biologist ,Students, or Very knowledgeable about life.

This web site is reserved for any person given to the controversy and debate surrounding the topic of Evolution Vs. Creation, and is utilized as such by many people, regardless of what careers they have chosen or their educational background. As far as I've noticed they are all welcome, with the exception of anyone who is not willing or able to follow the forum guidelines. There are people who are very knowledgeable in regards to,but not limited to, the topics of Christianity, evolution, accounting, theism in general, biology, architecture, etc.. Many of them are very knowledgeable about life. Some of them come here.

• DC85 writes:

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  Do you Think Science is Just one Big thing that everyone Involved Knows everything? Why should a Biologist Know a lot about astronomy?And even if we did do you think one Mystery would discard the mounds of evidence?

One who studies evolution should be able to provide astrological evidence, as necessary, to support such theories as they become relevant to the theory of evolution.------------------
love,
weary"Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes."

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love,
weary"Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes."

Weary pilgrim says:

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One who studies evolution should be able to provide astrological evidence, as necessary, to support such theories as they become relevant to the theory of evolution.

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Can you give an example of the relevence of short term comets to the theory of biological evolution?Can you give an example of the relevence of "astronomical evidence" to the theory of biological evolution? The only example I can think of is the apparently strong connection between a meteorite impact about 65 million years ago and the K/T extinction and subsequent diversification of mammals.

No they shouldn't as you said they are studying Evolution not comets and other space Objects. Ask one who is! He is getting Upset because we can't answer him when THAT isn't our field. I am sure there are astronomers here but around 7/10 of us are biology Related. Does a farmer need to Know how to Cook the Food he Grows? No!Yes we are science related Just as the farmer is related to the Food. But thats the Extent.So what if you can prove comets came later? That does not disprove everything else is the Age it is. It just means something happened that made comets. Just like our Solar system came in being long after the Big Bang.[This message has been edited by DC85, 08-27-2003]

Sorry Pilgrim bit of an in joke...Short version is that one of the other posters here, Mark24, postulated (in jest) the exsistence of a Galactic Goat (note the capitalised G's) responsible for the creation of the universe during a bout of flatulence....Its got as much evidence going for it as creation ex nihilo 6,000 some years ago and thus is as viable an alternative as YEC....Mark and I occasionally attempt to spread the word, however the vast majority of the evo's here seem to have schismed and are now devotees of that false idol the invisible pink unicorn.....All of which of course is done to try to illustrate how ridiculous it is to believe in a specific supernatural being which by definition there can be no evidence for....Not that Deism is a huge improvement but at least they don't make objective claims about the nature of the beast sans evidence....

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One who studies evolution should be able to provide astrological evidence, as necessary, to support such theories as they become relevant to the theory of evolution.

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One who claims to have any place in such a debate should probably know the difference between astronomy and astrology, too... or at least that's what Mr. Kepler said in my horoscope today....

at least one person in a group of evolutionists' should be able to provide astronomical evidence (refer to joz' messages 20, 34, 35, etc.), as necessary, to support an evolutionary assertion if it becomes relevant to a debate topic in EvC.
I will happily state, however, the thread of the evolutionary sweater will not be pulled apart whether the conditional reasoning connected with the Oot cloud proves true or false.------------------
love,
weary"Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes."

I can think of another one - my current favorite impact: the Acraman meteor (Australia) at 590-600 mya. 4000m in diameter, travelling at an estimated 90,000 kph. It dug a crater 4 km deep and 40 km across (primary - with a secondary ring up to 80km) and threw ejecta up to 500 km away from the impact site. It may have provided the impetus for the Cambrian radiation. "Cambrian explosion" indeed.

This post should've been called or ------------------

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There are comets with periods over 6000 years? Explain please and show evidence of this?

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Actually, the average comet period appears to be 40000 years, with some periods over a million years: Comet periods[This message has been edited by dinoflagulates, 08-28-2003]