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Member (Idle past 2540 days) Posts: 2544 From: boulder, colorado Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Imported weed diversification supports macro-evolution | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
mark24 Member (Idle past 5222 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
kurusu,
right, so speciation isn't macroevolution immediately, but following the definition I gave of macro evolution, which the other defintion given by Levinton appears to agree with, then this speciation will eventually result in macro-evolution. Speciation is a part of a process that may result in macroevolution at some point, when compared to the "start" point. Mark There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
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nator Member (Idle past 2196 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Melatonin is a neurotransmitter.
Melanin is skin pigment.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
There is more genetic difference within races than between them. There is no biological rationale for race. This is just too preciously politically correct, and missing the whole point. Is or is it not the very same process of population genetics that has produced the human "races," no matter what you think of the term, and no matter how much genetic diversity still exists within them, that leads to speciation in animals, produces "ring species" for instance? I'm talking about something OBSERVABLE. One can usually tell a Norwegian from an Italian, an Arab from a Mongolian. Sheesh. And there are even recognizable differences in general appearance between members of isolated tribes who are nevertheless related. This message has been edited by Faith, 03-26-2006 11:38 AM
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 761 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
This is just too preciously politically correct, No, it's what's supported by the DNA data. Your average !Kung from Namibia differs immensely, as human variation goes, from his fellow "Negroes" that are of Bantu or Ethiopian descent. The genetic distance from Swede to Montegnard is small by comparison.
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Adminnemooseus Administrator Posts: 3976 Joined: |
I know genetic differences within/between races has been covered before somewhere, but I think it's time to cover it again.
How about submitting something to the Proposed New Topics forum? Per this topic - People, get back on the weed. Adminnemooseus
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Unfortunately I forget where this subtopic started, but the DNA picture is not the point. I'm talking about the OBSERVABLE differences from one isolated population to another based on the principles of population genetics. That is, there are lots n lots of different groups of human beings that have developed their own genetic picture that differentiates them from the others, mostly because of migration.
Moose, this IS on the topic of the weed. It's about the normal processes of variation, how you get a different type of something. This message has been edited by Faith, 03-26-2006 01:03 PM
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1494 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
One can usually tell a Norwegian from an Italian, an Arab from a Mongolian. How about a Norwegian whose father was Italian? Or the son of an Arab and a Mongolian? Or could you identify by sight a Jew? How is a religion a race? The problem with race is that it obeys none of the laws of genetics that you and I are familiar with. If a white person and a black person have a child, that child is typically described as "half-black"; if two half-black people have a child and that child is 1/4 "black", we're well beyond making any sense of race in a human species that has only two copies of every chromosome. As a diploid organism you're either full, half, or none. Sure, we would expect human evolution in varied remote geographies to result in semi-seperated populations of human beings identifiable by certain physical traits. But the cultural concept of "race", which conflates genetics, ethnicity, religion, and a host of other biases, has really no basis in physical reality. And it should be noted that the trend in humans now is one of decreasing genetic variability between groups, not increasing. If we ever were "raced", we're rapidly ceasing to be so.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Sure, we would expect human evolution in varied remote geographies to result in semi-seperated populations of human beings identifiable by certain physical traits. Well, gee, thanks for acknowledging that simple point finally.
But the cultural concept of "race", which conflates genetics, ethnicity, religion, and a host of other biases, has really no basis in physical reality. Just the usual political correctness. Who cares. You're getting all hung up on a term. Gotta get all that political baggage into it. This message has been edited by Faith, 03-26-2006 01:47 PM
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5222 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
Faith,
Is or is it not the very same process of population genetics that has produced the human "races," No, races as you understand them were not produced. It is in fact genetics that has taught us this. There are populations of black africans that are more dissimilar to each other than whites are to them, genetically speaking. Australian aborigines are more similar to white caucasians than black africans. This means that we do when we declare races is that we are taking a small part of a large character set & attributing race in this way. Unfortunately we are also ignoring the larger picture which leads us to false conclusions.
I'm talking about something OBSERVABLE. One can usually tell a Norwegian from an Italian, an Arab from a Mongolian. Sheesh. And there are even recognizable differences in general appearance between members of isolated tribes who are nevertheless related. None of the groups you cited are races. And as for assigning races to groups because of OBSERVABLE characters, how about big noses? They are observable. Eye colour? It goes on. Why not. Dark skin is not indicative of common descent in human populations, so why lump them together because of it? Mark This message has been edited by mark24, 03-26-2006 02:26 PM There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1494 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Just the usual political correctness. Who cares. You're getting all hung up on a term. Gotta get all that political baggage into it. That's why it's such a bad term; it comes pre-loaded with all that political baggage. It clouds the discussion and obfuscates meaning. Given that that's the case I don't understand why you're so adamant that this term be used.
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 761 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
People, get back on the weed.
"No, no, no, no, I don't smoke it no moreI'm tired of wakin' up on the floor..." -- R. Starkey
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nator Member (Idle past 2196 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Oh? What race is this man?
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5222 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
Faith,
In addition to Schraf's post, what race are these children?
Mark There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Irrelevant. Where did I say I personally could recognize all the different races and tribes of humanity any more than I could recognize the five different races and tribes of goatsbeard?
This message has been edited by Faith, 03-26-2006 08:08 PM
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Where did I say I could recognize all the tribes of humanity?
And where did I say I could recognize if a tribe recombined with another tribe?
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