No, it does not say there is no GOD. Blowing smoke again Mike.It says that there is no plan, that man is not the result of design.There is nothing that says there is no GOD.It does falsify the Genesis Creation account but that has nothing to do with the existence of GOD.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

On the contrary my friend, you've made several very strong claims in this thread alone. For instance, you stated that atheistic evos reject any evidence for God (or words to that effect). You are implying that recourse to a deity provides a better explanation for what we see than otherwise. In addition, your statement here is disingenuous - you support the idea that life is planned, yes or no? My challenge to you is to go to the referenced thread and show how recourse to the supernatural provides a better - or even as good - an explanation for the examples I used than evolution. Forget about the planned bit, if you prefer. After all, that entire thread was in the nature of "reasons to believe evolution", which you claim you have no reason for accepting. Here's your chance. I would submit that if you are unwilling to do so, then your claims can be discounted, yes?

Yes. We didn't.I've shown how we start out with complex DNA information from our parents.A complex cell to an even more complex organism without information, is a different matter.So "process" or "starting out", which ever one, I still say tis complex.

Q, you misunderstand - he made a claim that evolution says we are unplanned. I disagreed.I'm not saying I haven't made any other assertions.

It is not enough to simply "strongly disagree", you must put forward your reasons for doing so. (Maybe you tried, but your post was a bit garbled at this point.) I apologize if you felt personally attacked. I didn't mean to. I was simply addressing the fact that you have had ample opportunity to know that random mutations are only half the story. The fact that you churn out the same old argument yet again, suggested to me that you hadn't picked up that information. A cold fact, no personal attack.If, on the other hand, you do know it and deliberately distort the picture, then a personal attack is quite in order, I think. I'm afraid it doesn't show. Nobody expects you to believe it. But you are expected to debate in an honest manner.Many of the arguments creationists put forward are examples of the same phenomenon: they either cannot or deliberately will not understand the principles of evolution explained to them. Creationists routinely distort the picture when they repeat what evolutionists have told them, they misquote things evolutionists have said, they leave out important parts. If countering those tactics means veering off-topic, then a lot of discussions with creationists must go that way, because then the principles of evolution aren't their topic after all.{edited to change a 'that' to a 'the'}This message has been edited by Parasomnium, 12-17-2004 03:10 PM

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We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. - Richard Dawkins

Right. So answer the challenge, Mike. Go to the thread I referenced, read the two posts (121, 123), and show how evolution is wrong without recourse to the supernatural. Or show how the examples were not sufficient evidence to support evolutionary theory. Or something - but debate like you have some respect for the person you're arguing with.

Oh, so now it's something different. Okay, what's so complicated about your average sperm?I don't understand. Please explain it to me.

Quetzal - ofcourse I respect you. I don't know why you would think otherwise. I will shortly explain my change to creationism in a new topic..a lot of people have misunderstood, and over-concluded the information I provided.If I have to back up my assertions - that's fair enough. But since I didn't make a claim - it would be silly for me to go to other threads and back up every little belief or opinion I have, yet I still read your link post.

Mike: I honestly couldn't care less whether you're a creationist or a pagan who sacrifices goats at the full moon. In fact, in the latter case, I can get you a good deal on sacrificial goats, wholesale. What I DO care about is supporting contentions. You made some bold statements in this thread concerning the validity of evolution and the scientific method. You implied that creationism provided a better explanation for life, the universe, and everything. That is what I want you to back up - and that is why I want you to attempt the challenge I set. Otherwise, those who accuse you of "smoke blowing" may be on to something.

I suspect that this is off-topic though Quetzal. I'd like to answer your concerns, but the truth is that if the truth is told as not the truth and untruth is told as truth as truth then the truth isn't the truth really. This is why the evolution theory - imo, might be scientific but it's post-hoc, or past tense. Why should I believe it when I can believe God?

Blowing Smoke

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Is better than inhaling it.Don't smoke, don't do drugs, don't drink.

And that was as nice a collection of unintelligeable jibberish as I've ever seen. You have a brilliant future ahead of you as a post-modernist.Check my translation for me, will you: "I have no intention of responding to your challenge. Henceforth I will simply continue to repeat the same nonsense you challenged me on in the expectation you will accept it 'cause I'm such a nice guy."Or words to that effect. Whenever you feel up to a real discussion, Mike, let me know. Until then, I'll simply assume your statements are without foundation. Have a nice day.

you might be interested in the article discussed in this post
EvC Forum: ID - How Many Designers and If ID, Macro or Micro Designer(s)?as he uses horizontal transfer to imply intelligence to bacteria and make them the managers of ID ...{I found the writing rather poor and repetitive.}

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

Damn. All made sense until I realized you had typed "ID" and not "IT". I have always belived that the IT manager that questioned my budget had the brains of a stunted bacterium.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion