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Author Topic:   Evolution.
AdminAsgara
Administrator (Idle past 2303 days)
Posts: 2073
From: The Universe
Joined: 10-11-2003


Message 76 of 117 (97132)
04-02-2004 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by teen15m6
04-02-2004 3:09 PM


Ok, I'm stepping into Admin mode here for a second to try to get some order to this thread (and I am as guilty as anyone for contributing to the disorder).
teen15m6, no one is going to be able to satisfy you with any answers if the questions keep rolling in. You ask several different questions and when ppl answer one you think they are avoiding the others?
I'm pulling moderator power and strongly suggesting that you pick ONE question at a time, give us the information that you have been given and ask for information from others. When that question has been answered to your satisfaction, or if it is found that no answer
will satisfy you, then go on to a different question. A further suggestion is that the question be in a new thread with a descriptive title and placed in the appropriate forum. If you need help with that, let me know and I can place correct the title and placement of the thread.
Since you seem to be quite young, I will drop out of the give and take as participant Asgara, and watch the interchange closely as AdminAsgara. No insults will be allowed, no name calling will be allowed, and no bare assertions will be allowed. (this goes for both sides) I WILL NOT stop ppl from suggesting that others might need to further their education on various matters, as long as it is done in a constructive manner.
If you need help with any of these suggestions just ask for it.

AdminAsgara
Queen of the Universe

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by teen15m6, posted 04-02-2004 3:09 PM teen15m6 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by teen15m6, posted 04-02-2004 3:30 PM AdminAsgara has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 77 of 117 (97133)
04-02-2004 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by teen15m6
04-02-2004 3:20 PM


NosyNed has asked you some valid questions teen. Perhaps narrowing down your queries will help focus what exactly is it you want "proven" to you. Please re-read Neds post to you it was polite, concise, well organized and I think he genuinely wants to help. Flittering around is only going to attract the... how was it creation man put it.. the sharks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by teen15m6, posted 04-02-2004 3:20 PM teen15m6 has not replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 78 of 117 (97134)
04-02-2004 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by teen15m6
04-02-2004 3:09 PM


Your writing quality is terrible. This would be at least somewhat excusable, if you're very young, or if English is not your primary language. But my impression is, that is not the case.
I cleaned up the message that this message is a reply to:
quote:
When did you insult me? You people keep saying I am an ignorant fool and that because I am religious I only believe what is laid out before me? That I wouldn't believe you if you were to smack me over the head.
And now I am being called gullible.
And I notice you still work your way around that human skull that's been dated 212 million years old.
And if my information was off, how do you know yours isn't?
If you wish to be taken as being an intelligent individual, you need to write like an intelligent individual. The way you are writing makes you look like a babbling fool.
This isn't to say that we require your writing form to be perfect.
Adminnemooseus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by teen15m6, posted 04-02-2004 3:09 PM teen15m6 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Mnenth, posted 04-02-2004 3:38 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied

  
teen15m6
Inactive Member


Message 79 of 117 (97137)
04-02-2004 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by AdminAsgara
04-02-2004 3:25 PM


ok so do i need to create a brand new forum or can this one stay?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by AdminAsgara, posted 04-02-2004 3:25 PM AdminAsgara has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by AdminAsgara, posted 04-02-2004 3:45 PM teen15m6 has not replied

  
Trixie
Member (Idle past 3706 days)
Posts: 1011
From: Edinburgh
Joined: 01-03-2004


Message 80 of 117 (97138)
04-02-2004 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by teen15m6
04-02-2004 3:22 PM


Did you get this from Kent?
Much of what you are telling us seems to bear a remarkable resemblance to much of Kent Hovind's material. I suggest that you go to this site
http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2002/1011hovind.asp
The site is a Creationist web site which tries to refute evolution and provide evidence for Creation. The page I've given you, brought to our attention by AbbyLever, refutes much of the evidence used by Hovind and many of the examples you've used are covered there.
Incidentally, I'm an evolutionist, but I thought that directing you to a Creation site might help you to understand some of the junk that has been used to discredit evolution and is now itself discredited.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by teen15m6, posted 04-02-2004 3:22 PM teen15m6 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by teen15m6, posted 04-02-2004 3:33 PM Trixie has not replied

  
teen15m6
Inactive Member


Message 81 of 117 (97143)
04-02-2004 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Trixie
04-02-2004 3:31 PM


Re: Did you get this from Kent?
thanks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Trixie, posted 04-02-2004 3:31 PM Trixie has not replied

  
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 82 of 117 (97144)
04-02-2004 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by teen15m6
04-02-2004 2:23 PM


If you are here to learn, you might try asking questions instead of taking an accusatory posture. You don't learn anything by retelling lies and distortions. Perhaps you should search out the evidence, methodologies, and terminology that scientists actuall use instead of the tripe you get from creationist sources. Anyway, I'll try and condense your distortion filled posts into one response.
quote:
the neandertal man was studied by Dr.A.J Cave and was an old guy who suffered from arthritis, even your site admits that they r just humans.
Homo sapien neaderthalis is the neaderthal and modern humans are Homo sapien sapien. We are considered different subspecies that could have been able to interbreed. However, evidence from mitochondrial DNA argues against this. If there were substantial interbreeding then mitochodrial lines should have melded as well. The FACT that neanderthals and modern humans differ in mitochondrial DNA it would seem that we were separate species, as seen in this graph. You will notice that there are greater differences between neanderthals and humans than there are between humans. The chip-human comparison is included for a reference point.
I have physical evidence that shows neanderthals as a separate species, what do you have?
quote:
that was one very big mistake, after all, from a single pigs tooth they created an entire missing link and then made him a wife!
and
quote:
to my understanding, a man found this tooth, and sent it in to scientist, they studied it and built and entire..... whatever u want to call it, fossile? and then they built him a wife from that tooth, and later the tooth was studied and found to be the tooth of an extinct pig.
This was the Nebraska man mistake. A man found one tooth in North America that appeared to be similar to that of hominids. The POPULAR press picked up on this and blew the story way out of proportion, even to the point constructing a picture of a totally made up hominid. However, evolutionary scientists were far slower pulling the trigger, and never released any opinion that claimed that the tooth was from a hominid. In fact, the only opinion that was released in peer review journals was that it WAS NOT a hominid tooth. This claim still rests with ONE over exuberant scientist, and the subsequent press releases were due to an overactive imagination among the popular press. Not one shred of human ancestory or evolution theory was based on the Nebraska man. How foolish do you feel now.
quote:
and heres another interesting fact, your scientist found a fossilized human skull and then they dated it to be 212 million years old,
Reference please. Creationists are known for lying, so I would like a reference to their methodology and results.
quote:
and do u know how scientist know how old a fossile is? by the layer of dirt its found in, and they know how old the dirt is because of the fossiles found in it.
How many lies and distortions do you have left in your grab bag? Fossils are dated by measuring the ratios of radioisotopes within igneous rocks that are below and above the fossil found. Only rarely are fossils used to date sediments, and when fossils are used to date sediments, the dates of the fossils are already known from previous radioisotope dating. Radiometric dating is a very solid and accurate methodology that is used in numerous other fields, including astronomy and geology. Creationists have yet to poke a hole in the dating methodologies.
quote:
my point is your house cat did not turn into a tiger and a tiger did not change into your house cat.
No, your cat did not change into a tiger, or vise versa. However, they do share a common ancestor. Humans also share a common ancestor with cats, and with reptiles, and with amphibians, and with fish, and with every other living thing on this earth.
quote:
u ppl all think that we came from some bacteria that mutated into something else everything just keeps mutating and making new things wether they r better or worse but u have no proof,
You are getting close, but you still don't understand our position. The "making new things" are new species that are better adapted to their environment, not worse. And yes, we do have proof. Take a trip to TalkOrigins Archive: Exploring the Creation/Evolution Controversy sometime and check it out for yourself. Saying we have no proof means ignoring 95% of the posts dealing with biology on this site. Did you take a look at those skulls I posted for you? Do you see the graph up above? I could probably post graphs and my own descriptions of separate pieces of evidence every minute till I die and still not cover it all. Your insistent claim that there is no evidence is a lie, and the sooner you realize this the better.
quote:
no foundation that the earth is so old,
Sorry, but you are deluding yourself. Check out Greenland Ice Cores and Age Correlations and an Old Earth for just a small taste of the volumes of data supporting an old earth. If you continue to ignore the evidence, you can no longer claim you came here to learn.
quote:
of earth that r million of years old but have trees going thru several layers meaning the tree stood there and died and for some reason it didnt rot away?
No one has ever found a tree that goes through millions of years of sediment. However, they have found trees that go through several hundred years of sediment. You have been told lies.
quote:
humans have been here for a couple thousand years and yet there are human skullz 212 million years old?
I still want a reference for this. You would think that such a damning piece of evidence would be talked about within scientific circles. The silence should tell you something.
quote:
that stuff is not possible, period. if anyone if refusing to see the truth its u, common sense tells u these things. and i ask u, have i insulted u ppl in any way yet? then dont insult me.
If you are unwilling to realize that you have a distorted view of science and evolution, and that you have been fed a bunch of lies by creationists who think its OK to lie for Jesus, then you will never uderstand what truth is. We do feel insulted because some of us have spent years of our lives working towards a better understanding of the natural world, and yet some people feel that none of that matters, that their views are right because a book on theology says so. You might as well be arguing for a flat earth and a sun that orbits the earth if you want to take the bible this literally. My suggestion to you is this: Review the evidence that has led to the conclusions within evolutionary theories, review what those theories state (read up on random mutation and natural selection), and then compare what you learn with what is posted on creationist sites. If being christians means that you have to swallow the lies that you have posted here, I can't think of many people that would want to call themselves christian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by teen15m6, posted 04-02-2004 2:23 PM teen15m6 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Mnenth, posted 04-02-2004 3:46 PM Loudmouth has replied
 Message 87 by teen15m6, posted 04-02-2004 3:47 PM Loudmouth has not replied

  
Mnenth
Inactive Member


Message 83 of 117 (97148)
04-02-2004 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Adminnemooseus
04-02-2004 3:29 PM


You know, perfect spelling and correct grammar dont make you any smarter. Some people just arent good with words, but are highly intelligent in other fields. But teen, your writing IS pretty bad. and jumbled. Take a little more time when you type, and everyone else, let's slow down so he doesnt feel like he needs to type so quickly. Maybe then he'll make more sense, and wont seem like such a fool.
{Bumped up font size one unit. I thank you for this input. - Adminnemooseus}
[This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 04-02-2004]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Adminnemooseus, posted 04-02-2004 3:29 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied

  
AdminAsgara
Administrator (Idle past 2303 days)
Posts: 2073
From: The Universe
Joined: 10-11-2003


Message 84 of 117 (97149)
04-02-2004 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by teen15m6
04-02-2004 3:30 PM


teen,
Please go to this page and read the descriptions of the various forum. Find one that suits your question and click into it. At the top right side of that page is a "post new topic" button. When you start your new topic, put a descriptive title into the subject box.
Bad example = Answer this ....
Good example = Question Concerning the History of Nebraska Man
When you ask your question, like I said before, present the information you have and preferably where you heard it. Ask others for their input.
Thank you for listening to my suggestion...I hate when I have to make it a mandate.

AdminAsgara
Queen of the Universe

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by teen15m6, posted 04-02-2004 3:30 PM teen15m6 has not replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 85 of 117 (97150)
04-02-2004 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by teen15m6
04-02-2004 2:42 PM


and do u know how scientist know how old a fossile is? by the layer of dirt its found in, and they know how old the dirt is because of the fossiles found in it.
You might stop suggesting that you are offering anything that we haven't already heard a bunch of times.
This has been brought up before. It happens to be, at best, utterly misleading and from what you've gotten from it you can take it to be utterly wrong. If you really want to learn you have to understand that you're starting from knowing very, very little.
In addition, a great deal of what you've been told is false.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by teen15m6, posted 04-02-2004 2:42 PM teen15m6 has not replied

  
Mnenth
Inactive Member


Message 86 of 117 (97152)
04-02-2004 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Loudmouth
04-02-2004 3:35 PM


quote:
Creationists are known for lying
OK, lets keep this friendly. And factual, because that isnt a fact. There are probably just as many lying evolutionists as creationists.
And lets define a lie. A lie is spreading false information that you KNOW to be false. Teen doesnt KNOW this stuff to be false, so it isnt a lie, only a misunderstanding.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Loudmouth, posted 04-02-2004 3:35 PM Loudmouth has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Loudmouth, posted 04-02-2004 3:54 PM Mnenth has replied

  
teen15m6
Inactive Member


Message 87 of 117 (97153)
04-02-2004 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Loudmouth
04-02-2004 3:35 PM


thanks again. and yes i got most of what i said from kent hovind. i will do some research. thanks all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Loudmouth, posted 04-02-2004 3:35 PM Loudmouth has not replied

Replies to this message:
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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 88 of 117 (97157)
04-02-2004 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by 1.61803
04-02-2004 2:58 PM


Re: Your purpose?
I wrote Ark off as being unable to learn a thing days and days ago. I'm hoping teen isn't yet another one like him.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by 1.61803, posted 04-02-2004 2:58 PM 1.61803 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by teen15m6, posted 04-02-2004 3:53 PM NosyNed has replied
 Message 91 by Mnenth, posted 04-02-2004 3:55 PM NosyNed has not replied

  
teen15m6
Inactive Member


Message 89 of 117 (97162)
04-02-2004 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by NosyNed
04-02-2004 3:49 PM


Re: Your purpose?
well all i know about evolution ALL from kent hovind, evolution is not taught in my school books, yes i look like an absolute fool but that will change.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by NosyNed, posted 04-02-2004 3:49 PM NosyNed has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Trixie, posted 04-02-2004 4:05 PM teen15m6 has replied
 Message 95 by AdminAsgara, posted 04-02-2004 4:22 PM teen15m6 has not replied
 Message 100 by NosyNed, posted 04-02-2004 4:48 PM teen15m6 has not replied

  
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 90 of 117 (97163)
04-02-2004 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Mnenth
04-02-2004 3:46 PM


quote:
OK, lets keep this friendly. And factual, because that isnt a fact. There are probably just as many lying evolutionists as creationists.
Maybe I shouldn't have worded it as strongly as I did, but I still stand by it. Such things as "the second law of thermodynamics prohibits evolution" is one such lie. It is simply not true, yet it is spread from creationist site to creationist site. I could name numerous other topics that are in DIRECT CONTRADICTION to repeatable observations. Creationists insistence of using this falsified data is lying, and there is no other way to cut it. And, by creationist, I mean those that are educated in the field and should know better. The fact that young people are drawn into repeating these lies is more a testament to the poor quality of our educational system than anything else. If you think evolutionists lie as much as creationists, could you please show something within the current evolutionary theories that is falsified by repeatable observations? I can't think of any.
Just to keep things on topic, if you disagree with anything in this post feel free to open a separate thread and I promise I will respond to your opening post. The admins get a little aggravated when discussions wander too much.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Mnenth, posted 04-02-2004 3:46 PM Mnenth has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by Mnenth, posted 04-02-2004 4:32 PM Loudmouth has replied

  
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