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Author Topic:   How can evolution explain body symmetry?
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 256 of 284 (227326)
07-29-2005 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 253 by iano
07-29-2005 11:38 AM


EI EI Oh?
iano writes:
You've said very little (if anything) which directly tackles either EI,MI,T1 on the macro scale. By all means do so
Actually, you've said little or nothing to back up your assertion that "indoctrination" rules. So far, everybody who has responded to you is an exception to the rule.
How about some substance from you before you start demanding it from others?

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

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 Message 253 by iano, posted 07-29-2005 11:38 AM iano has not replied

  
CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 257 of 284 (227328)
07-29-2005 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 254 by iano
07-29-2005 11:43 AM


Re: Drivers.....Re-start your engines...
But what makes TOE specifically different?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by iano, posted 07-29-2005 11:43 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by iano, posted 07-29-2005 11:58 AM CK has not replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 258 of 284 (227329)
07-29-2005 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 250 by Chiroptera
07-29-2005 11:05 AM


Re: once again, into the breech....
And you are suggesting all of this without providing any evidence that this is actually happening, or even that it is even possible.
At the start of my explaination of EI,MI,T1 I stated that these where the topics for now. What happens next; for instance how this might affect a scientist in his work, could arise after the above are established, if they're established. No point in pulling the thing all over the place. Step by step, easy on the throttle and all that... ;0
Anything to say about EI,MI,T1?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by Chiroptera, posted 07-29-2005 11:05 AM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by Chiroptera, posted 07-29-2005 12:00 PM iano has not replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 259 of 284 (227332)
07-29-2005 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 257 by CK
07-29-2005 11:51 AM


Re: Drivers.....Re-start your engines...
Afternoon CK. You going to easy on me today then..?
Anything to say on EI,MI,T1?
(Was riding home last night and thought to myself 'Intellectual Cocaine' is right. Ping!!....better start typing less!)
Sorry, missed your last post. Why Evo? It's a free world ain't it?
This message has been edited by iano, 07-29-2005 12:01 PM

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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 260 of 284 (227333)
07-29-2005 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 258 by iano
07-29-2005 11:53 AM


Re: once again, into the breech....
So, is this an admission that you don't have anything of substance to say?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by iano, posted 07-29-2005 11:53 AM iano has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by ringo, posted 07-29-2005 12:05 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 261 of 284 (227340)
07-29-2005 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 260 by Chiroptera
07-29-2005 12:00 PM


Re: once again, into the breech....
Chiroptera writes:
So, is this an admission that you don't have anything of substance to say?
*cough* Troll *cough*

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by Chiroptera, posted 07-29-2005 12:00 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by Chiroptera, posted 07-29-2005 12:08 PM ringo has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 262 of 284 (227344)
07-29-2005 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by ringo
07-29-2005 12:05 PM


Re: once again, into the breech....
Yes, I also noticed that he's awfully gleeful about wasting bandwidth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by ringo, posted 07-29-2005 12:05 PM ringo has not replied

  
PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 714
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 263 of 284 (227348)
07-29-2005 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 251 by iano
07-29-2005 11:32 AM


Re: MI
Hi to you too Iano.
Why someone would continually beat a view into someone to convince of something they had never heard of? Never heard of evolution; no tv, no books, nobody outside the household...see defintion of MI for a more complete list then re-evaluate. I take your statement to be a little hyperbolic. If it's not hyperbole and you've really never ever heard of evolution, yet lived in an average scientifically exposed society, then you would form a very tiny minority.
I did say "other than from my mother". Seriously she was the only source of information wrt evolution until about the age of 16. It was never mentioned in school and I don't remember seeing anything about it in any of the books I read as a child. I was 10 before my dad bought our first B&W TV and the only thing we watched on the 2 available channels was news, sport and re-runs of Charlie Chapelin and Buster keaton. (Incidentally we were one of the first families in the village to actually have a TV so I think I was pretty typical of kids in my area in the early 60s.)
The fact is that my mother did a pretty good job of keeping me isolated from any prejedicial outside influences. However it only served to fuel my need for knowledge. Many of my friends just accepted what they were told and grew up to become farmers or mechanics or factory workers. Nothing wrong with that but it was never enough for me.
"Uranium dating methods have shown that the earth is in fact 4500 million years old"...and said to yourself "but my mother told me it was only 4000 years old!!" Impressive it may have been, but at this point you were not yet at the level of knowledge to understand the intricacies of Uranium dating to know if it was accurate or whether the folk applying it where using it accurately. In other words, whether Uranium dating is accurate or not is not the point here.
I was around 16 and had long since begun to see problems with the biblical timescale. None of it made sense, even internally. That was why I went looking for science.
point is, you assumed it was true before you knew it to be true. That's EI at work.
No I didn't assume anything was true. The first thing the science texts taught me was that science is based on evidence and observations (OK I may have assumed that was true) which are then used to construct theories etc. etc.
As an example, I would read a book on local Geology then go to the places that it described and see if my observations agreed with what the text told me. In science you can't assume that anything is true, no matter who told you it was. I try my best to question everything until I am good and sure that it works the way it is claimed to. That included my professors at college. I must have driven them nuts with my questions.
In other words, intensive EI but BEFORE you got the education which may have allowed you to evaluate for yourself.
Then just how do you propose it is possible to get the necessary education to allow one to properly evaluate the evidence since that very education appears to equate to EI?
This just makes no sense to me at all.
Common sense, a basic understanding of scientific methodology and an inquisitive nature are all you need to sidestep any of this EI stuff that you propose. I would like to think that all students of science would have these attributes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by iano, posted 07-29-2005 11:32 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 265 by iano, posted 07-29-2005 1:13 PM PurpleYouko has not replied
 Message 272 by Peter van der Hoog, posted 07-30-2005 12:04 PM PurpleYouko has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 264 of 284 (227373)
07-29-2005 12:52 PM


Topic: How can evolution explain body symmetry?
Topic: How can evolution explain body symmetry?

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by PurpleYouko, posted 07-29-2005 1:17 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 265 of 284 (227389)
07-29-2005 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by PurpleYouko
07-29-2005 12:13 PM


Re: MI
Now that's what I call admirable prose. No anger, no flaming, no jumping up and down, just a gentle description designed purely to explain to another what one's point of view is. It's an ability I all to infrequently apply myself. Hat's off...
Anyway, back to business. EI,MI or T1, anything say to dismantle or cause me to modify these?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by PurpleYouko, posted 07-29-2005 12:13 PM PurpleYouko has not replied

  
PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 714
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 266 of 284 (227390)
07-29-2005 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 264 by Omnivorous
07-29-2005 12:52 PM


Re: Topic: How can evolution explain body symmetry?
Topic: How can evolution explain body symmetry?
Is that really supposed to be the topic here?
We have got so far away from it that I had forgotten.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by Omnivorous, posted 07-29-2005 12:52 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by Omnivorous, posted 07-29-2005 1:38 PM PurpleYouko has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 267 of 284 (227402)
07-29-2005 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by PurpleYouko
07-29-2005 1:17 PM


Re: Topic: How can evolution explain body symmetry?
PurpleYouko asked:
quote:
Is that really supposed to be the topic here?
We have got so far away from it that I had forgotten.
Yes.
This thread was hijacked ~75 posts ago by a non sequiturish poster who ignored invitations to submit a Proposed New Topic concerning his own, unrelated assertions.
Up to that point, the discussion had focused on the topic; it has not addressed it since. I thought the body symmetry discussion was productive and interesting.
That poster has had the effrontery recently to demand that others limit their responses to his off-topic topic.
Enough.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by PurpleYouko, posted 07-29-2005 1:17 PM PurpleYouko has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by iano, posted 07-29-2005 2:12 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 268 of 284 (227424)
07-29-2005 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 267 by Omnivorous
07-29-2005 1:38 PM


Oop's, it's body symmetry stupid
That poster has had the effrontery recently to demand that others limit their responses to his off-topic topic.
And that ladies and gentlemen, is the most logical thing I've read today (bar EI,MI,T1). You are absolutely and totally 100% right. Top marks that man/woman
(I did read a little around before I first posted and the discussion was ID at the time but the point is perfect nonetheless. Sorry.
Off to New Posts it is with me then)

"Evolution is unproved and unprovable. We believe it only because the alternative is special creation, which is unthinkable" Sir Arthur Keith, Anthropologist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by Omnivorous, posted 07-29-2005 1:38 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by Omnivorous, posted 07-29-2005 2:48 PM iano has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 269 of 284 (227437)
07-29-2005 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 268 by iano
07-29-2005 2:12 PM


Re: Oop's, it's body symmetry stupid
quote:
Off to New Posts it is with me then
Thank you.
I look forward to a full and frank exchange of views.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by iano, posted 07-29-2005 2:12 PM iano has not replied

  
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5032 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 270 of 284 (227597)
07-29-2005 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 218 by iano
07-28-2005 2:06 PM


Re: What's up Indoc...?
I have "filtered" it out, because I have reduced any so-said "indoctrintation" to the query of Fisher's as to if there is any "adaptive" oversight and in the same generation of scholars found IN THE EVOLUTION"" of my grandad a certain adapation INTO biological praxis that I regress is submitted if only subsconsiously by any evolutionist but need not be digested by any bevy of bio-mass specialitsts etc.
But the stucuture of evolutionary theory MIGHT be able to hand"le" symmetry and the perverse representations of it in the literatuer WITHOUt reference to this social adpative indoctrination. There was no national hijack anywhere in this thread else it is partisianisms.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by iano, posted 07-28-2005 2:06 PM iano has not replied

  
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