|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 57 (9190 total) |
| |
critterridder | |
Total: 919,041 Year: 6,298/9,624 Month: 146/240 Week: 89/72 Day: 1/10 Hour: 0/0 |
Thread ▼ Details |
Member (Idle past 1603 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: MACROevolution vs MICROevolution - what is it? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2304 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
|
Just to clarify can you give me an example of this in the natural world? And furthermore, if it has been observed in the natural world does that mean it must be true?
You are a prime example. That you differ from your parents is microevolution. That you differ from your ape-like ancestors of a few million years ago is macroevolution.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2304 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Still waiting for that "observed" example or at least a definition of what you mean by observed.
No, what you are doing is trying to obfuscate the whole issue because you have chosen not to believe in evolution no matter what the evidence is. I gave you classic examples of microevolution and macroevolution, but you seem to require that they be directly "observed" and now you want to argue about the definition of "observed." Face it, evolution happened. The whole apes-to-humans scenario that paleontologists have described actually happened. Ancient tribal myths that say otherwise are inaccurate.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2304 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
There is a significant error in your last image.
The human line did not lead from Caucasian to Negroid to Mongoloid.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2304 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
|
You are spouting pure nonsense, and off-topic nonsense at that.
If you want to discuss human races then start a new thread for that subject. That's something I studied in graduate school and have quite a good library on.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2304 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
A better analogy is running out of fuel... Something like 3.8 billion years later and we aren't running out of fuel yet. Maybe there's something wrong with the way you are thinking about evolution.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2304 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Not in any way that contributes to the formation of new species, races, varieties, breeds, etc., which requires some form of selection which requires losing genetic diversity. And if it did keep doing what you claim, you would never have any identifiable species, races, varieties or breeds. There are about a third of a million separate species of beetle, all presumably descended from a common ancestor. It is clear to all but creationists that there is more overall diversity among those third of a million species than there was in the original ancestor. Mutations and selection caused this. Your argument fails for this and many other reasons.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2304 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
The original beetle probably had no junk DNA for starters and many genes for every trait. That would very likely be quite enough to account for that many different species. Only a subset of creationists believe things like that. Scientists (you know, those folks who go where the evidence leads) have concluded otherwise.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2304 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
So I'm not allowed to give an alternative explanation or hypothesis here, only the establishment view is allowed. Well, that figures. Not all alternatives are of equal value, not are they supported equally by scientific evidence. "The moon is made of green cheese" is a good example. It is an alternative explanation without any scientific evidence to support it, hence its value is nil. Many of your "alternatives" fall in the same category.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2304 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
My alternative theory has been very well supported. Creationist fantasies and scripture are not scientific evidence.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2304 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
What I'm saying is that species in nature appear to be pretty stable, not subject to mutations which keep changing their appearance. For most species, changes are hard to see, but there are some examples of more rapid speciation which have been given in these threads. I can see how you might not expect speciation in just 6000 or 4350 years, but we have evidence of over three billion years so there's been lots of time.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2304 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Loss is necessary?
Not so. What is necessary is change!Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2304 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Would you rather that science not correct errors?
Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2304 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
I think it is important to realize Science is a tool that does provide a way to interpret data. I also think there are more tools in the tool box that provide a better way to interpret the same data and/or data of a different type. Sometimes coupling the tools used to interpret data is best for the job. But not all ways of interpreting data are of equal value. So far religion, philosophy and similar ways of interpreting real-world data have been immense failures. Science, while not perfect, is finding out things, correcting errors, and producing very useful results.
And of course it's important to note i'm refering to interpreting the origin of all things. Science has some ideas on this subject, but is still working on it. On the other hand, there are some 40,000 world religions, each with a slightly different or vastly different explanation for origins, and in lot of cases the explanations are mutually exclusive or contradicted by real-world evidence. I don't consider that a very good track record, nor something to be emulated. Preachers are always complaining that scientists are playing God, but all too often, their confusion is the result of preachers playing scientist--The Sensuous Curmudgeon. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2304 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
|
Regarding religon, you test them to find out which one is correct. Religions are notorious for not subjecting their beliefs to tests against evidence. Typically, when there is a disagreement over interpretation of scripture or belief, you will get a schism--that's why there are so many different religions and denominations/sects within religions. It is common to have, for example, young earth believers state that the evidence doesn't matter--if it contradicts the young earth belief the evidence is wrong somehow. So, thanks, but I'll stick to science and you can have religion and any of those other fuzzy subjects.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2304 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
I thought the puma and panther were different species that could still interbreed. If not, my mistake. Does it not sometimes bother you that you make so many basic mistakes in your pronouncements? Does it ever occur to you, perhaps, that a lot more of your opinions and beliefs may be wrong?Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024