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Author Topic:   Transitional fossils not proof of evolution?
nwr
Member
Posts: 6419
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 166 of 223 (327456)
06-29-2006 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 163 by pompuspom
06-29-2006 6:12 AM


Re: I've changed my mind
I'm not following the thread here I know, but just wanted to say that I'm back and sorry if I offended anyone when I was here before.
I doubt that you offended anybody.
I am glad that you have made good use of the experience. Following up the evidence and learning from it - that's the right approach.

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 Message 163 by pompuspom, posted 06-29-2006 6:12 AM pompuspom has not replied

  
smegma
Inactive Member


Message 167 of 223 (333399)
07-19-2006 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Alasdair
03-02-2006 12:55 PM


"Transitional fossils not proof of evolution?"
are there even transitional fossils that's been found?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Alasdair, posted 03-02-2006 12:55 PM Alasdair has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by jar, posted 07-19-2006 4:13 PM smegma has replied
 Message 169 by NosyNed, posted 07-19-2006 4:56 PM smegma has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34051
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 168 of 223 (333431)
07-19-2006 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by smegma
07-19-2006 3:35 PM


Millions of them. Likely billions of them.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by smegma, posted 07-19-2006 3:35 PM smegma has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by smegma, posted 07-19-2006 8:01 PM jar has replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9006
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 169 of 223 (333452)
07-19-2006 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by smegma
07-19-2006 3:35 PM


What is a transitional.
are there even transitional fossils that's been found?
Since you chose to ask this question it becomes apparent that you don't know very much about the science. Before one can properly answer this question you will have to tell us how you define a "transitional". What to you think one should look like. What would you want to be shown that you would count as a transitional?
It is rather possible that you understand evolutionary biology so poorly that you don't actually know what would constitute a transitional. You have simply read websites that make the assertion that there aren't any and you, knowling no better, belived what they told you.
So we can start helping you if you can help us understand just what your level of understanding and knowledge is.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by smegma, posted 07-19-2006 8:16 PM NosyNed has replied

  
smegma
Inactive Member


Message 170 of 223 (333516)
07-19-2006 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by jar
07-19-2006 4:13 PM


"Millions of them. Likely billions of them."
show me proof that they've found transitional fossils.

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 Message 168 by jar, posted 07-19-2006 4:13 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by jar, posted 07-19-2006 8:06 PM smegma has replied
 Message 172 by Nighttrain, posted 07-19-2006 8:14 PM smegma has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34051
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 171 of 223 (333517)
07-19-2006 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by smegma
07-19-2006 8:01 PM


Have you ever actually held a fossil? Do you know what a transitional is?
All fossils are transitional. They are snapshot of life in transition.
Maybe before we go any further, particularly since the sites you've linked to are so full of misinformation, we should find out what you think a transitional might be?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by smegma, posted 07-19-2006 8:01 PM smegma has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by smegma, posted 07-19-2006 8:20 PM jar has replied

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 4074 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 172 of 223 (333521)
07-19-2006 8:14 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by smegma
07-19-2006 8:01 PM


Mineralised examples
WE are transitionals. Not fossils? Could I point out certain Christians that are well on the way to becoming specimens? :-)

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smegma
Inactive Member


Message 173 of 223 (333522)
07-19-2006 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by NosyNed
07-19-2006 4:56 PM


Re: What is a transitional.
"Before one can properly answer this question you will have to tell us how you define a "transitional". What to you think one should look like."
that means everyone has their own version of what the definition of "transitional" is since you asked me how i define transitional(it's like me asking you how do you define good food or good music?).for me a "transitional fossil" is a fossil that's part say fish and part frog.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by NosyNed, posted 07-19-2006 4:56 PM NosyNed has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by NosyNed, posted 07-19-2006 8:26 PM smegma has replied
 Message 184 by Percy, posted 07-19-2006 8:53 PM smegma has replied

  
smegma
Inactive Member


Message 174 of 223 (333523)
07-19-2006 8:20 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by jar
07-19-2006 8:06 PM


"All fossils are transitional."
explain.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by jar, posted 07-19-2006 8:06 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by jar, posted 07-19-2006 8:27 PM smegma has not replied
 Message 185 by RAZD, posted 07-19-2006 8:57 PM smegma has not replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9006
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 175 of 223 (333528)
07-19-2006 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by smegma
07-19-2006 8:16 PM


Re: What is a transitional.
I presume by part "fish and part frog" you mean in a more generic way; with characteristics we currently assign to fish and some that we currently assign to amphibians. Correct?
that means everyone has their own version of what the definition of "transitional" is since you asked me how i define transitional(it's like me asking you how do you define good food or good music?)
No, there is a clear definition as used in biology. However, we find people come on here without knowing what one is and seem to have their own idiosyncratic definition. Your definition is, as far as it goes, possibly inline with a more precise biological definition.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by smegma, posted 07-19-2006 8:16 PM smegma has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by smegma, posted 07-19-2006 8:31 PM NosyNed has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34051
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 176 of 223 (333529)
07-19-2006 8:27 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by smegma
07-19-2006 8:20 PM


on transitional
Your post to nosyned just above pointed to what may be your problem. The TOE never suggests that there would be some critter that is half fish and half frog, and in fact, should something like that ever be found it would definitely mean we all need to step back and look at the theory again.
The Theory of Evolution does not say that there would ever be something like that, rather that the transitions will be small and happen of relatively long periods of time. Even what is called rapid evolution covers a period of tens of thousands of years.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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smegma
Inactive Member


Message 177 of 223 (333530)
07-19-2006 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by NosyNed
07-19-2006 8:26 PM


Re: What is a transitional.
"No, there is a clear definition as used in biology. However, we find people come on here without knowing what one is and seem to have their own idiosyncratic definition."
are you a scientist?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by NosyNed, posted 07-19-2006 8:26 PM NosyNed has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by NosyNed, posted 07-19-2006 8:34 PM smegma has replied
 Message 180 by jar, posted 07-19-2006 8:37 PM smegma has not replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9006
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 178 of 223 (333531)
07-19-2006 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by smegma
07-19-2006 8:31 PM


Re: What is a transitional.
as a help you might read over this thread:
All species are transitional
some issues are dealt with there. I'm still looking for where some people posted a clearer defintion of a 'transitional'.
are you a scientist?
Do you want to wait for a practicing scientist to discuss this? Or are you willing to talk to some of us who have done a bit more reading in the area than you may have?
We do have a number of biologists posting here if that is what you want.
Do I understand what you definition of tranistional means?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by smegma, posted 07-19-2006 8:31 PM smegma has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by smegma, posted 07-19-2006 8:40 PM NosyNed has replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9006
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 179 of 223 (333532)
07-19-2006 8:36 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by jar
07-19-2006 8:27 PM


Re: on transitional
Jar, he did say "part". It isn't yet a clear enough definition to know if he has it wrong or not.
It is possible to take his definition as being at least not in contradiction to the correct understanding. Don't do what I do and jump the gun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by jar, posted 07-19-2006 8:27 PM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34051
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 180 of 223 (333533)
07-19-2006 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by smegma
07-19-2006 8:31 PM


Re: What is a transitional.
are you a scientist?
If you really want a scientist I can set you up with one in a mentoring discussion.
If that sounds good (it will prevent piling on and you getting overwhelmed with responses) just reply and I'll set it up for you.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by smegma, posted 07-19-2006 8:31 PM smegma has not replied

  
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