Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Is a literal reading of the Bible an insult to its authors?
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 181 of 187 (478572)
08-17-2008 9:59 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by cavediver
08-17-2008 11:05 AM


Re: Gospels vs NT
As a mixture of historical narratives, epistles, and a mystical vision, does it not seem rather bizarre to talk about the fictional state (or not) of the whole of the NT?
If I take for example the epistles of Paul I would have to include them as the Gospel also.
That is because he said that he preached "the unsearchable riches of Christ as the gospel."
"To me less than the least of all saints was this grace given to announce to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ as the gospel" (Eph. 3:8)
This would mean all the riches of wisdom and blessing which he elaborated on in each of his epistles he would count as the gospel. Based on this priniciple, the riches of Christ taught in all the epistles could be considered with Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, as the gospel.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by cavediver, posted 08-17-2008 11:05 AM cavediver has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by cavediver, posted 08-18-2008 4:59 PM jaywill has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 182 of 187 (478584)
08-18-2008 8:29 AM
Reply to: Message 174 by anglagard
08-16-2008 1:43 PM


Re: Cheap Grace Reading
Did you die on a cross 2000 years ago? Were you the one resurrected? If not then how do you justify the claim that your interpretation is infallible and all others are "godless"? To me it seems unearned.
First concerning "godless". If you are sensative that people would insinuate that you are godless then you might be careful about despitefully using the phrase "your god" as you did on me.
You must realize that I am not talking about my private God but the one God. So if you want to sling around contemptuous phrases saying "your god" did this and "your god" did that and "I'm bothered by your god for thus and such", then don't be upset if you get a reation that implies that you are godless.
There is only one God, not my private custom made one in the contemptuous sense that you wrote.
Now about me dying on the cross 2,000 years ago.
In the Holy Spirit is the effectiveness of Christ's death and resurrection. That is why Paul could say that he was crucified with Christ.
This means that when He partakes of the Spirit of Christ the mysteriously all the attainments and obtainments of Christ are included in that Spirit. This is why he spoke of "the bountiful supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ" in Philippians 1:19.
Just like the rich ingredients to an all-inclusive drink so is the Spirit of Christ. His death is in the Spirit in a mysterious way. His resurrection is in the Spirit also. His human living,His humility, His fine humanity, His divinity, His ascending, His exaltation, and all the things He has accomplished are in the Spirit for man to apply his own being and situation.
Did it ever occur to you that the Bible may have been written for everyone and not just you and the people who agree with you?
That is vague. But each sunday morning I enjoy the Lord's Supper with Korean speaking, Chinese speaking, English speaking, Spanish speaking, Farsi speaking brothers and sisters.
They come from Korea, Africa, China, the US, and various South American countries. So the unity and oneness which we enjoy has indeed impressed me that Christ is all-inclusive and expansive.
No they do not all agree on everything. But we do all agree on the essential thing - that Jesus is Lord.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by anglagard, posted 08-16-2008 1:43 PM anglagard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by anglagard, posted 08-18-2008 9:18 PM jaywill has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 183 of 187 (478587)
08-18-2008 9:52 AM


Did it ever occur to you that the Bible may have been written for everyone and not just you and the people who agree with you?
I have never seen anyone come up with a more broad and inclusive way of salvation than "whosoever believes"
Invariably upon examining skeptic's objections to the New Testament they arrive at a more elitist and restrictive way for the world's people to come to know truth.
Sometimes you have to be totally conversant on quantum physics or have a Phd. in cosmology to know the truth.
Or you have to be thoroughly versed in some amino acid or know all the ins and outs of Evolution Theory.
Skeptics of the Bible usually have a much more restrictive means for everyone to come to the knowledge of the most vital truths of human life.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 184 of 187 (478620)
08-18-2008 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by jaywill
08-17-2008 9:49 PM


Re: Gospels vs NT
How does it work that one accepts this as historical fact yet does not believe any of it?
Simple - one can accept that every word and action that is attributed to Jesus in the Gospels was spoken or acted by Jesus, in the manner described. Why does this imply that one believes what Jesus is saying?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by jaywill, posted 08-17-2008 9:49 PM jaywill has not replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 185 of 187 (478621)
08-18-2008 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by jaywill
08-17-2008 9:59 PM


Re: Gospels vs NT
If I take for example the epistles of Paul I would have to include them as the Gospel also.
Well, if you're making up your own rules as you go along, then I guess you can do whatever you like...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by jaywill, posted 08-17-2008 9:59 PM jaywill has not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 836 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 186 of 187 (478634)
08-18-2008 9:18 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by jaywill
08-18-2008 8:29 AM


Re: Cheap Grace Reading
jaywill writes:
First concerning "godless". If you are sensative that people would insinuate that you are godless then you might be careful about despitefully using the phrase "your god" as you did on me.
You must realize that I am not talking about my private God but the one God. So if you want to sling around contemptuous phrases saying "your god" did this and "your god" did that and "I'm bothered by your god for thus and such", then don't be upset if you get a reation that implies that you are godless.
There is only one God, not my private custom made one in the contemptuous sense that you wrote.
Now about me dying on the cross 2,000 years ago.
When it appears that what one calls "god" is simply a projection of oneself and argues that they speak for this "god" by implying their interpretation of this "god" is infallible, then this so-called "god" is clearly false and deserving of contempt.
However, if one accidentally gives the impression that they are infallible through a poor choice of words and apologizes for their mistake, however grudgingly, then there is some hope that that person may actually be attempting to understand the real God.
Hopefully in the future, such a person will be more careful when posting and learn some actual tolerance for different viewpoints developed through honest study and examination of the Bible, just as they claim to have for different racial and ethnic backgrounds. God did not make the universe just so one mortal could look down their nose at everyone else.
Only then will you have the humility to do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon
The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by jaywill, posted 08-18-2008 8:29 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by jaywill, posted 08-18-2008 11:04 PM anglagard has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 187 of 187 (478637)
08-18-2008 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by anglagard
08-18-2008 9:18 PM


Re: Cheap Grace Reading
When it appears that what one calls "god" is simply a projection of oneself
That's your opinion. And it is rather vague to me exactly what you are refering to.
and argues that they speak for this "god" by implying their interpretation of this "god" is infallible, then this so-called "god" is clearly false and deserving of contempt.
I don't think that all my interpretations are infallible by a long shot.
However, if you have an interpretation of Scripture, I have every right to examine it to ascertain if it seems valid or not. There is such a thing as a poor interpretation or even an incorrect one.
With application rather than interpretation I think there is more flexibility.
However, if one accidentally gives the impression that they are infallible through a poor choice of words and apologizes for their mistake, however grudgingly, then there is some hope that that person may actually be attempting to understand the real God.
That's right. Jesus must not be finished with me yet.
Hopefully in the future, such a person will be more careful when posting and learn some actual tolerance for different viewpoints
I think tolerance is best demimstrated when someone has something first. A sloppy person who is apathetic about truth is not truly tolerant.
I think first you have to have something valuable and precious. Then how they react to others views may reveal true tolerance. Many people who are clueless as to why they are here and where they came from display a "tolerance" which I don't think is genuine.
Show me someone who feels that they know the truth about human existence and then we can decide if he is tolerant toward others with a different viewpoint.
But if you're clueless don't boast about how tolerant you are.
developed through honest study and examination of the Bible, just as they claim to have for different racial and ethnic backgrounds. God did not make the universe just so one mortal could look down their nose at everyone else.
So I will look forward to you changing your attitude a little then. Maybe you'll stop glaring down your spectacles with an accusatory talk about "your god" this and "your god" that.
Only then will you have the humility to do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
I have, in terms of not yielding to some of the attempts on this forum to make the Bible out to be fantasy in places where it says that it is not.
That's exactly how I would want someone to have the courage to stand up for what the Bible says about itself.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by anglagard, posted 08-18-2008 9:18 PM anglagard has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024