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Author Topic:   Is a literal reading of the Bible an insult to its authors?
rueh
Member (Idle past 3661 days)
Posts: 382
From: universal city tx
Joined: 03-03-2008


Message 136 of 187 (477364)
08-01-2008 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by ICANT
08-01-2008 1:20 PM


Re: Re-Story
How is that not a parable? Every resource I have lists this among one of his parables.
John the Babtist is also mentioned through parables in both Luke and Matthew. Abraham,Isaac and Jacob in Luke
Edited by rueh, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by ICANT, posted 08-01-2008 1:20 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by ICANT, posted 08-01-2008 3:18 PM rueh has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 137 of 187 (477368)
08-01-2008 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by rueh
08-01-2008 1:53 PM


Re-Story
rueh writes:
How is that not a parable? Every resource I have lists this among one of his parables.
John the Babtist is also mentioned through parables in both Luke and Matthew. Abraham,Isaac and Jacob in Luke
Are you saying none of these people existed?
Sounds like the entire bible is a parable to you.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by rueh, posted 08-01-2008 1:53 PM rueh has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by rueh, posted 08-01-2008 3:26 PM ICANT has replied

  
rueh
Member (Idle past 3661 days)
Posts: 382
From: universal city tx
Joined: 03-03-2008


Message 138 of 187 (477370)
08-01-2008 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by ICANT
08-01-2008 3:18 PM


Re: Re-Story
No just correcting you.
ICANT writes:
No where does Jesus use a man's name in a parable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by ICANT, posted 08-01-2008 3:18 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by ICANT, posted 08-01-2008 5:37 PM rueh has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 139 of 187 (477374)
08-01-2008 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by Brian
07-30-2008 5:32 PM


Re: Re-Story
"But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity."
There has never been thousands of towns in Judah.
No, not thousands, but there were clans of Judah chronicled in the Bible, which are further delineations of the 12 tribes of Israel.

“Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Brian, posted 07-30-2008 5:32 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by Brian, posted 08-01-2008 4:09 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 140 of 187 (477375)
08-01-2008 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by ICANT
07-26-2008 1:35 PM


Re: Re-Fish
The sperm whale has a body that could accommodate a person for 3 days without doing damage to him.
First of all, where in the book of Jonah, or anywhere in the Bible for that matter, does it describe a Sperm whale? All it said was a large fish. Besides, when Jonah was around, there could have been extremely large fish that have not yet been extinct at that time that the writer was referencing. Secondly, I highly doubt that a sperm whale could accommodate one person, let alone three, without doing damage to either of them.
Where are they going to receive air? How are the gastric juices not going to kill them even supposing they could get air? There is a tale of a whaler being swallowed by a sperm whale. He was reputed to have survived the ordeal, but he also was not found 3 days later. Rather, he was discovered within a short period of time. And when he was cut out of the stomach he was unconscious and his skin was bleached from gastric acid.
But more importantly no one knows for sure whether or not the story is true. It could be urban legend, and it could be true.
As it relates to the Bible, does it matter either way? You either believe it to be literally true, understand the symbolism, or don't believe either of the two.

“Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by ICANT, posted 07-26-2008 1:35 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
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Brian
Member (Idle past 4960 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 141 of 187 (477380)
08-01-2008 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Hyroglyphx
08-01-2008 3:41 PM


Re: Re-Story
So you agree that Micah 5:2 is about a clan and NOT the town of Bethlehem?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-01-2008 3:41 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-01-2008 5:00 PM Brian has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 142 of 187 (477382)
08-01-2008 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by Brian
08-01-2008 4:09 PM


Re: Re-Story
So you agree that Micah 5:2 is about a clan and NOT the town of Bethlehem?
I think that it is both prophetic and speaking of a clan coming out of Bethlehem. I think it is saying, out of this clan will come mashiac.

“Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by Brian, posted 08-01-2008 4:09 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by Brian, posted 08-01-2008 5:13 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4960 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 143 of 187 (477384)
08-01-2008 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by Hyroglyphx
08-01-2008 5:00 PM


Re: Re-Story
It is definitely prophetic.
If the Messiah was to come from the clan then it doesn't follow that He needs to be born in Bethlehem. It certainly would explain why the big man was called Jesus of Nazareth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-01-2008 5:00 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4960 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 144 of 187 (477385)
08-01-2008 5:36 PM


Matthew's slip is showing
Another point on the character of the author of Matthew is why did he misquote Micah 5:2?
We have Micah 5:2 which says:
"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
though you are small among the clans of Judah,
out of you will come for me
one who will be ruler over Israel,
whose origins are from of old,
from ancient times.
And we have Matthew 2:6
'But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah; for out of you will come a ruler who will be the shepherd of my people Israel.
I wonder why the author of Matthew decides to leave out 'Ephrathah' when quoting Micah.
Was it because Jesus' genealogies were already in circulation and Bethelehem was not one of Jesus' ancestors?

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 145 of 187 (477386)
08-01-2008 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by rueh
08-01-2008 3:26 PM


Re-Story
rueh writes:
No just correcting you.
If you want to correct me then you need to start a thread where we can go into detail discussion of what you think are parables, and what I think are parables.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by rueh, posted 08-01-2008 3:26 PM rueh has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by rueh, posted 08-03-2008 5:23 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 146 of 187 (477403)
08-01-2008 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by Hyroglyphx
08-01-2008 3:52 PM


Re-Fish
Nemesis Juggernaut writes:
As it relates to the Bible, does it matter either way? You either believe it to be literally true, understand the symbolism, or don't believe either of the two.
NJ to me it makes no difference at all. I believe Jesus. I was just presenting a possibility. A 67' sperm whale has an area in his
head about 7' x 7' x 14' where air is stored along with an oil that can be like a wax. These things help when he dives to 1.9 miles deep with the total dive lasting about 2 hours.
Since Jonah's fish was especially prepared for him there would be no problem in his fish supporting him for 3 days.
In fact his fish could have looked like the 3 man sub I went down over a 1,000' in.
Jonah's fish could have been an angel sent to take care of him.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-01-2008 3:52 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 153 by Archer Opteryx, posted 08-05-2008 1:42 AM ICANT has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 147 of 187 (477466)
08-03-2008 7:22 AM
Reply to: Message 146 by ICANT
08-01-2008 9:19 PM


Re: Re-Fish
Jonah's fish could have been an angel sent to take care of him.
You know I never thought of that but it is a possibility. In Daniel God had a huge hand write on a wall.
And do we know if Jonah was actually alive all that time while he was in the fish for three days?
Aren't there some opinions that Jonah died and was brought back to life?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by ICANT, posted 08-01-2008 9:19 PM ICANT has not replied

  
rueh
Member (Idle past 3661 days)
Posts: 382
From: universal city tx
Joined: 03-03-2008


Message 148 of 187 (477492)
08-03-2008 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by ICANT
08-01-2008 5:37 PM


Re: Re-Story
So let me make sure I understand exactly where you are coming from. You can use any type of imagination/fantasy that your mind can conceive in order to shape the world around you to line up with the bible. Regardless of realized physical aspects of the world.
ex:
ICANT writes:
fish could have looked like the 3 man sub
ICANT writes:
fish could have been an angel
ICANT writes:
The sperm whale has a body that could accommodate a person for 3 days without doing damage to him.
But reexaming scripture to try and put it in perspective and world view of a culture three thousand years old, is right out?
It seems like you are much more eager to argue semantics and your preferred and acceptable scriptures in order to shift the conversation.Ex:
ICANT writes:
BTW that is not a parable.
Than you are to be able to talk about ideas, that everything in the bible may not be taken as literal truth. If you would like to believe that everything in the bible is 100% accurate, great your mind is made up. If you want to try and convey ideas to others why you believe this to be true. Circular reasoning, semantics and fantasy may not be the route you need to take.
Edited by rueh, : spelling
Edited by rueh, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by ICANT, posted 08-01-2008 5:37 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by ICANT, posted 08-03-2008 10:19 PM rueh has replied
 Message 151 by Brian, posted 08-04-2008 1:12 PM rueh has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 149 of 187 (477504)
08-03-2008 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by rueh
08-03-2008 5:23 PM


Re-Story
rueh writes:
If you would like to believe that everything in the bible is 100% accurate,
But there are too many copyist errors for it to be 100% pure.
ICANT writes:
fish could have looked like the 3 man sub
I can't help it if they built the sub to look like a fish. It was a tourist attraction
ICANT writes:
fish could have been an angel
Angels have appeared as men why couldn't one appear as a fish?
ICANT writes:
The sperm whale has a body that could accommodate a person for 3 days without doing damage to him.
Sperm whale has several storage places in its head total space for a 67', 7' x 7' x 14'.
I mentioned these as possibilities.
I believe God provided a special fish just for Jonah.
That is what the Bible says.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by rueh, posted 08-03-2008 5:23 PM rueh has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by rueh, posted 08-04-2008 12:52 PM ICANT has not replied

  
rueh
Member (Idle past 3661 days)
Posts: 382
From: universal city tx
Joined: 03-03-2008


Message 150 of 187 (477551)
08-04-2008 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by ICANT
08-03-2008 10:19 PM


Re: Re-Story
So to reiterate my question. You can use any type of imagination/fantasy that your mind can conceive in order to shape the world around you to line up with the bible. Regardless of realized physical aspects of the world. But reexaming scripture to try and put it in perspective and world view of a culture three thousand years old, is right out? Is that correct?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by ICANT, posted 08-03-2008 10:19 PM ICANT has not replied

  
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