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Author Topic:   Bible Study Cover to Cover
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 46 of 117 (417429)
08-21-2007 12:36 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by pelican
08-20-2007 11:12 PM


Re: suffering in the bible?
genesis proposes the origin of suffering to be exile from paradise, specifically mentioning female suffering the form of childbirth, and male suffering in the form of manual labor. somewhat metaphorically speaking, regarding genesis 3, suffering is the natural result of consciousness.
a more appropriate answer to this question can be had about 14 months from now, if there is a "job" thread.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by pelican, posted 08-20-2007 11:12 PM pelican has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 47 of 117 (417544)
08-21-2007 6:53 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by pelican
08-20-2007 11:12 PM


Re: suffering in the bible?
i haven't gotten there yet.
i mean. i know the answer that i have heard, but i don't yet know the answer i've read.
Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.

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Bailey
Member (Idle past 4370 days)
Posts: 574
From: Earth
Joined: 08-24-2003


Message 48 of 117 (417787)
08-24-2007 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by pelican
08-20-2007 11:12 PM


Re: suffering in the bible?
Can anyone tell me if the bible gives a purpose or reason for suffering?
The tree of knowledge offered the process of self-differentiation between good and evil. A separation from God's absolute wisdom. We resided in this wisdom with Him in the beginning. There is no suffering except when one departs from this wisdom. Elohim cannot reside outside of this wisdom. Nobody without it can reside with Him.
Adam and Eve had a choice of the self-process of differentiation between good and evil without immortality, or immortality with God’s absolute wisdom instinctually. The self-process of differentiation between good and evil immediately started causing people to kill each other . (ex. jealousy, murder, war, blah, blah, blah . see Cain and Abel). Suffering ensued.
Just some thoughts...

Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

This message is a reply to:
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pelican
Member (Idle past 4986 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 49 of 117 (423705)
09-23-2007 8:56 PM


The meaning of the bible
Reading the bible and taking it as a whole story, it pretty much reflects the same story around the globe right now. Could the bible be merely a reflection of humanity in every form?

  
Scoopy
Junior Member (Idle past 6021 days)
Posts: 18
From: Springfield, Oregon
Joined: 09-30-2007


Message 50 of 117 (425618)
10-03-2007 8:04 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Chiroptera
08-02-2007 4:24 PM


I agree

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Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 51 of 117 (500492)
02-26-2009 6:59 PM


Genesis
skip to Gen 19
It's been a while but I was intrigued by the idea of doing this. So I went and learned a little bit about the subject matter, courtesy of Christine Hayes
Genesis 1: A classic and profound work. Essentially it seems to be a dramatic and important twist on the concepts of near-eastern thought. Instead of a great battle of gods with one ascending to primacy before splitting the waters into the firmament, it skips the battle asserting the original sovereignty of elohim. Instead of the creation of man as a slave race, man is created in the image of elohim.
Genesis 2: With a slight hangover from 1 we shift focus to God's relationship to man. He created him and all those things that look nice and are pleasant/good and continues the theme of man as something apart from nature.
Genesis 3: Confirms that the nature of God is quite different from Genesis 1. Instead of being a spirit/wind over waters he is walking around speaking just like the traditional deities of the pagans. Here Adam and Eve speak with the serpent and then eat the fruit. I like to think that the act of eating was enough to enable the couple to realize that they did have the freedom to go against God's instructions - whatever the reasoning they gain modesty and hide from God. When he finds them he's not impressed - he seems to fear that humans have become something of a threat and must be exiled from Eden and forbidden from getting anywhere near the Tree of Life (which wasn't previously off limits). Various curses are given out as a result of the transgression.
Genesis 4: God doesn't give respect to Cain for his offering of grain. Why? Is this some kind of textual way of suggesting that the nomadic life is superior to the agricultural farming life? God warns Cain that he will feel the call of chatta'ah, translated as sin, but that he can master it. Clearly he doesn't and God punishes him by exile which he goes off and becomes rather fruitful. The chapter ends with Seth and Enos. At this point I notice God has given no explicit instructions to anybody as to how to be moral.
Genesis 5: A quick rundown of the generations of Adam up to and including Noah -> Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
Genesis 6: It all goes wrong. Man's freewill has ended up with widespread corruption and evil which seems an intractible problem. So, time to destroy all but the good ones (supernatural selection?) as well as most other life. For some reason, not described in the text, God is upset at the beasts/creeping things/birds (but not plants?) as well. He sits down (metaphorically) with Noah, his chosen good person, and details the construction of a boat and its planned inhabitants that could withstand what he has in mind.
Genesis 7: Noah gets all the animals together, more clean ones than unclean ones and puts them on the ark as instructed. God then opens up the firmament above and below and in pours the water for 40 days/nights and the flood prevailed for 40 days/150 days destroying all land animals (plants are still somehow spared)
Genesis 8: God uses a wind to bring an end to the flood (presumably blowing the water back onto the other side of the firmament, similar to what he does in Genesis 1 (the wind on the face of the water that seperates the firmament) and what he is said to do for Moses later. The flood eventually dries up and Noah is told to go forth and multiply. He makes sacrifices of each of the clean beats/fowl and the sweet smell of burnt flesh results in him declaring he'll never drown us again (perhaps he'll just burn our sweet smelling flesh?)
Genesis 9: God says we can eat meat, but we must not eat the life (blood), which should be returned to its rightful owner, God - this is our first explicit instruction on morality. God promises not to flood the earth again, and creates the rainbow to seal the deal with all of earth as his witness...and whenver clouds should be overhead he'll be sure the seal of the covenant is seen to assure us we aren't all going to die. Noah gets drunk and we get another morality tale about preserving other's modesty/dignity (Ham sniggers about his father's drunken nakedness but the other brothers cover their father up without looking at his nakedness.
Genesis 10: Just talks about the descendants of Noah and their role in nation building.
Genesis 11: God seems once again threatened by the possibility of acheivements of man which might supplant him. Very old school goddish of him. This time, the cooperation of mankind seems to vex him so he makes it more difficult by confounding their previously common language. There's a little bit of anti-Babylon propaganda here in the typical Hebrew act of punning (Babel/Babble/Babylon) works about the same in English fortunately). More generations pass and we end up with Abram/Abraham and his nephew, Lot. Abram has a wife called Sarai who is barren. This seems extraneous information after the tale of Babylon, but they pick up and leave Ur of the Chaldees to go to Canaan.
Genesis 12: And now it seems God changes pace. Instead of relying on mankind he starts to nurture one man and his descendants. So Abraham is told to pick up and leave by God with promises of a great nation. So off they go, with no specific destination (Get thee out of thy country...unto the land that I will show thee) and they end up in Egypt. Abram pretends Sarai is his sister, but after the advances of Pharaoh to the fair woman God sends plagues down upon him and Pharoah tells Abram to sod off for his deception.
Genesis 13: Lot is still with them all at this point, so no doubt they were quite close. Nevertheless after returning to Bethel (which is on the West Bank I think), Lot and Abram have a bit of strife so they go their seperate ways. Lot to Jordan and Abram to Canaan. Apparantly Lot made a bad choice because Sodom was full of bad people, but God makes a promise to Abram: he and his seed will have the land forever and they will be numerous. What strikes me here is that Abram must be a little confused about this since Sarai is barren.
Genesis 14: Great armies fought in Lot's land and his city is sacked and he is taken captive! Abram hears about it and gets together a militia and takes up the cause. Somehow with little more than 300 men, Abram wins and gets Lot back (Madness? This is CANAAN!!!). Various Kings who had been defeated bless Abram, but Abram demurs on the offer of riches from them.
Genesis 15: Abram is a little disconcerted about being childless but God assures him he will have more descendants than is countable. God makes a promise, sealed with a sacrifice and a ritual.
Genesis 16: Sarai is now concerned about her not baring children and points to her handmaiden Hagar. So Abram gets Hagar pregnant but strife follows after Hagar lords it over Sarai. God, via an angel, assures Hagar that all will be well and her child should be called Ishmael. When Ishmael was born, Abram was 86!
Genesis 17: Abram is renamed Abraham at age 99. From beloved father to 'father of many'. The dramatic tension is getting rather intense - he's had one kid Ishmael. The covenant has a price now: circumcision. This seems to be yet another example of the Hebrews historicizing customs in the context of their deity. Oh, and Sarai is now going to be called Sarah and it she that will be the mother of the multitudes. God assures Abraham that Ishmael and his seed will go onto found a great nation, but that Sarah's child, Isaac will be the one with whom God resumes the covenant. There then follows a massive spate of circumcision including the near century old Abraham and his 13 year old son.
Genesis 18: Sarah is old, how is she going to conceive? (Talk about hammering the point home ). I'm God, for my sake, says God. But first, a great cry is heard from Sodom ("I felt a great disturbance in the Force..."). Abraham begins to haggle with God trying to save the lives of its inhabitants...would you destroy them all if there are 50 innocents? No says god. What about 45, surely you wouldn't do it for lack of the five? etc etc He gets him down to 10 before God sets off.
Genesis 19: Turns out that God's agents don't find 10. So they go about destroying the two infamous cities. However, remembering Abraham, he does spare Lot, Abraham's nephew and old travel companion. But Lot's wife was destroyed either as a mercy after the horror's she witnessed, or as punishment. Lot's daughters, wanting to preserve their line sleep with their father whilst he is drunk. They got pregnant and those children went on to become patriarchs of nations in their own right - though not nations that Israel likes, one gets the feeling.

back to the The beginning
skip to Gen 24
Genesis 20: So Abraham goes a travelin' again (one of my thoughts as I've looked through the first two books of the Torah is that if it modern Britain had a genesis like Israel's supposed genesis we'd call our green land "Dunroamin"). This time he goes to Gerar (part of Israel and once home to the Philistines), and in a stroke of deja vu the king, thinking that Sarah is Abraham's sister 'took' her. God isn't impressed and rebukes the King (by rebuke I mean curse, and by King I mean the King, his wife and the maidservants), and the King has a go at Abraham. Abraham explains he thought they'd kill him if they thought he was married, and he adds, she is technically his half-sister. "she [is] the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.". Seemingly pleased God removes the curse of barenness he placed on the King's household.
Genesis 21: Sarah conceives and gives birth to Isaac, and eight days later Abraham (aged 100) has at it at Isaac's man parts. Hagar and Ishmael turn up and do their normal mocking thing - and with God's permission (and assurances that Ishmael will found a nation), he sends them on their way (with supplies). Unfortunately the supplies run out and Hagar fears that Ishmael (referred to as 'the lad' will die, but God provides a handy miracle in the form of a well. What strike me here is that God instructs Hagar: "Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand; for I will make him a great nation." My immediate image is of a scene in the lion king, but Ishmael is 14 years old here - I doubt an Egyptian Bondwoman is going to be picking up a 14 year old in any meaningful way.
Anyway, Ishmael became an archer in the deserts (possibly the same as Moses' famous desert) and his mum gets him a wife from Egypt.
Anyway the King that Abraham had a disagreement with makes a convenant with him, Abraham does some civic work with a well and the King sods off leaving Abraham to dwell in Beersheba - in the land of the Philistines.
Genesis 22:
God: Kill your son.
Abraham: O'rly?
God: Yes
Abraham:...
A famous chapter and one worth considering in detail. What did the authors really want us to think here? It is very sparse on details, allowing our imagination to fill in gaps as it will. During the journey to the mountain is Isaac aware of what his father will do? He certainly plays dumb:
And [Isaac] said, "Behold the fire and the wood: but where [is] the lamb for a burnt offering?"
Abraham's reply is a bit of a joke I'm going to play with the normal word order to translate the joke into English.
"God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering - my son."
Is Abraham worried about the prophecy of seeding a nation given that his barren elderly wife actually managed to produce a son and now he must kill him? Is Abraham testing God - knowing that any God that allows child sacrifice should not be the one to be followed?
At the last second there is an intervention and Abraham kills an unlucky goat instead. God then says because of his 'fear' he will reward Abraham with lots of descendant. I am forced to wonder - if Abraham had refused to sacrifice his son, what would've happened? God had already promised all these things to Abraham after all, and surely God wouldn't break a covenant?
The chapter ends with a load of begats.
Genesis 23: Sarah dies, aged 127. Abraham buys Hebron/Cave of the Patriarchs in order to bury her.
Genesis 24: Abraham is dying. He makes his servant swear to get a woman from his home land (Ur, I presume) as a wife for Isaac. They don't shake on the promise, but the servant puts his hand underneath Abraham's thigh. The servant goes off on his way, devises a test of kindness to pick a wife. He happens upon Rebekah (whose name not only means 'To tie or bind' but also implies 'Captivating beauty').
So who is she? Incest rears its head again...

Terah
|
----------|-----------
| | |
Abraham Nahor <--\ Haran
| | \ |
Isaac Bethuel Milcah
|
Rebekah
The arrow indicates that Nahor and Milcah got it on to produce Bethuel. Milcah being Nahor's niece. Anyway, Rebekah, despite her incestuous heritage, is a good looking virgin so naturally it is a good idea for her to marry her grandfather's brother's son (1st cousin once removed if you're interested).
In case you hadn't anticipated it already, Rebekah passes the test (she draws water for the servant's camels!), and the servant hands her some gold (dowry I assume). When the servant learns of the incestuous nature of things, he thanks the lord! He does a 'previously in Genesis' to Rebekah's brother, Laban (including a 'previously in Genesis 24'). There is a little bit of confusion over leaving plans, but it gets cleared up and they all head back to Isaac who gets a 'previously in Genesis 24'. Isaac promptly takes his cousin into his mother's tent and 'takes' her and falls in love with her and was comforted in his mother's death.
I'm not making this up, you know.
skip to the Gen 32
Last time, on Genesis, Abraham lost his wife and married off one of his sons, Isaac to one of his relatives, Rebekah whilst on his deathbed.
Genesis 25: Abraham gets another wife, and fathers a whole host of children, but maintained Isaac as his heir and any bastard children of whores he had he gave them gifts and exiled them. Abraham eventually '{gives} up the ghost' at the age of 175. Ishmael only gets to 137 before giving up the ghost.
Isaac, on the other hand, like his father - makes a sterile woman pregnant (when he was aged a mere 60 years old), and she had twins who kicked off in her womb. As seems to be case, God informs them that the two kids will be founders of nations and that 'the elder shall serve the younger' - the twins are born, the eldest was hairy and red, and was named Esau (he becomes a hunter) and Jacob (who is a plain man) came out 'on his heels'. So as they grow older, Esau is starving to death and he begs his younger twin for some stew/soup/porridge. Jacob in a fit of morality makes a deal: Gimme your birthright and I'll give you some grub. Nice.
Genesis 26: God warns Isaac to avoid Egypt, and his reward for living where God wants him to is lots of descendants. Like his father, he pretended his wife was his sister out of fear of being killed. (Was having a beautiful wife so dangerous in the Middle East or something? No wonder men started insisting they cover their faces...). This time nobody tries to sleep with her, but when the King sees Isaac bonking sporting her he still gets annoyed and makes it a crime to harm them.
Eventually Isaac is so wealthy he is exiled by the King and he starts making camp nearby. There is some squabbling over well rights before Isaac heads off to Beersheba. After a while the King that exiled him approached him for a Non-aggression pact covenant.
Esau, like Isaac, got married at 40 years old. He had the audacity to not marry a family member, and instead married a Hittite which really pissed of Isaac and Rebekah.


I can't help but notice that ever since Abraham started to get old, the story got boring - reusing some of the same story elements. It's like Genesis jumped the shark when it killed off half the long running cast in Genesis 25.

Genesis 27: Starts with Isaac old (what another classic character is going to die? Man why am I even watching this show) and he gets Esau (yawn) to go hunting for him. Meanwhile, Rebekah tells Jacob what just happened and gets Jacob to go get a goat or two so she can make Isaac some goat chops: since Isaac is going blind we'll pretend you are Esau. But, says Jacob - Esau is uber hairy and I'm not. Rebekah has a cunning plan though, Esau's hair is a little hircine so she'll just past the goat skin to Jacob and Isaac will never know the difference.
Isaac didn't know the difference and they had a merry time and he blessed his son Jacob. Just as Jacob leaves, Esau returns. Apparently Isaac was only able to bless one of the twins because Esau was really upset that Jacob had stolen his birthright as well as his blessing. Esau spits out his dummy and vows to kill Jacob (possibly the worst plot contrivance to get a man mad enough to kill his twin brother I have ever seen in the history of bad plot contrivances (and I have been a GM in Fantasy Role Playing games)). Jacob, learning about his fratricidal...brother, is told to flee by his mother to her brother's.
Genesis 28: Jacob is sent to his mother's homeland and on the way has a dream. He sees a ladder with divine beings climbing up and down with heaven at the top with God overlooking the whole affair. God makes some familiar promises to Jacob about how he will have many descendants. He wakes up somewhat chuffed with himself and sets his stone pillow upright as a pillar.
Genesis 29: Following somewhat in his father's footsteps Jacob goes back to his mother's homeland to meet the family. There he meets Rachel: the daughter of Laban - his mother's brother and falls in love with her and offers to do seven years of service to have her (he beat Isaac who only managed 1st cousin once removed).
Alas: seven years of servitude and all he got was a lousy sister of the woman he loved (Leah). Tricked into marrying the wrong sister he's kind of annoyed but Laban says, try Leah for one week and you get Rachel free...your mileage may vary, the price of your dowry may go up as well as down, the Haran clan is not liable for any damages as a result of having multiple wives, you also agree to serve Laban for another seven years
God, the sadistic motherfucker, sees that Leah is disliked by Jacob and so he makes Leah hyper-fertile and makes Rachel infertile. Not just content with teaching Jacob a lesson for getting tricked into marrying a woman he doesn't live, he decides to punish an innocent woman as well. Once again: nice. I suppose the misogynists that wrote this thought this was perfectly good.
Continuing the misognystic front, Leah bares Jacob four sons (he doesn't hate that much then does he?): Reuben, Simeon, Levi and Judah.
Genesis 30: Also known as Jacob gets a crap load more sons. Rachel, like Sarah, gives Jacob her handmaiden so that he might have a son by her. He has two: Dan and Naphtali. Leah, not to be outdone gives Jacob her handmaiden who bares him Gad and Asher.
Leah then sells her son's mandrakes to Rachel for a chance to have sex with Jacob (?), and he has two further sons, Issachar and Zebulun. Oh and a daughter, Dinah.
God wakes up, and let's Rachel produce children and she bares Joseph. Then Jacob decides to leave Laban and take all the speckled cattle as payment...but Jacob knows about heredity (he had plenty of kids!) and so he engaged in a bit evolution/artificial selection and he bred the cattle so that the speckled ones were strong, and the none speckled ones were weak and sickly. Puh - bloody Darwinist.
Genesis 31: *zzzz* oh. Yeah, Jacob runs off with his ill-gotten gains and Laban chases after him and berates him. Laban was looking for some stolen property but Rachel was sat on them so he didn't find them. *zzzz* oh sorry. This show's going downhill again. Laban and Jacob bicker and then make up.
Genesis 32: Angels to Jacob: I know its been a whole geneation, but your brother is still pissed off - he's coming with 400 mates to kick your ass. So Jacob sent lots of presents to Esau to placate him, sent his family off in another direction and wrestled with some guy who renamed him Israel.

back to the Gen 25
Jacob's name was changed to Israel and this marks a turning point in his character.
I recently highlighted the wrestling with the ambiguous 'divine one' as an important scene, but I thought I'd add one more thought - I think I might have mentioned it before but now seems a good time to reiterate anyway. God has been trying to figure out how to develop a relationship with mankind who are nearly His equal, and who use their freewill to disobey Him. He tried the "kill 'em all" method, and that didn't work. He tried the blind obedience method in Abraham, but He quickly sees that won't work either (and thus stops Abraham from killing his son).
In Jacob there is an obedient but independent servant. A man who wrestles with God, neither prevailing and both somewhat better for it. A Jyhad, if you will.
skip to the end
Genesis 33: Esau and Jacob meet, and reconcile their differences.
Genesis 34: A prince's son rapes Dinah, one of Jacob's daughters (to Leah) and asks the sons of Jacob for her hand in marriage. The brothers are happy to oblige, but request that all the men of the town be circumcised so that they are of one people. This done, and all the men in pain and indisposed -
And it came to pass on the third day, when they were sore, that two of the sons of Jacob, Simeon and Levi, Dinah's brethren, took each man his sword, and came upon the city boldly, and slew all the males.
Not content with this act of rather disproportionate vengeance they also kidnap the children and women.
And all their wealth, and all their little ones, and their wives took they captive, and spoiled even all that [was] in the house.
Genesis 35: Worried about retaliation from other cities, Jacob is visited by God who tells him to go to Bethel where he had the 'Ladder' dream. He monotheizises his household before setting off. Rachel dies during childbirth, the child is Benjamin or Benoni. God reiterates that Jacob should be calling himself Israel now and the book starts referring to him in that fashion. Israel now has the famous 12 sons:
To Leah - Reuben, Simeon, and Levi, and Judah, and Issachar, and Zebulun.
To Rachel - Joseph, and Benjamin
To Bilhah - Dan, and Naphtali
To Zilpah - Gad, and Asher
Then Isaac gives up the ghost at 180 years old.
Genesis 36: Details the history of Esau's lineage, the Edomites. Mindnumbingly boring list of names of people I really don't care about.
Genesis 37: The flow of the story becomes a little more domesticated. Less God even more familial disputes. It starts with Israel making a coat of many colours for his favourite son, Joseph. His brothers are a little pissed with this favouritism, and Joseph had some seemingly derogative dreams about his brothers and told them about them which they weren't best pleased about either. Apparently not any dream will do (sorry).
Israel sends Joseph to meet with his brothers and gain word how things are tending their flock. He catches up with them and they conspire to kill him. The eldest, Reuben, puts them off killing him violently and suggest they throw him into a pit. Judah hits upon the idea of selling him into slavery and reaping the profit. Unfortunately by the time they return to the pit someone else has already rescued and sold him and he was on his way to Egypt.
The brothers dip his coat in goat's blood and try to make it look like he was attacked by an animal.
Genesis 38: Judah has three sons, Er, Onan and Shelah. God didn't like Er so he killed him. Judah asked Onan to make babies with Er's wife, but Onan infamously pulled out so God killed him too. Judah promised the woman his final son, Shelah when he came of age.
When Shelah came of age, she went to Judah in a veil, and thinking her prostitute he succesfully solicits sex from her - on credit. When he sends a man with payment for the sex, the man can find no prostitute, and so the matter is thought to be concluded. Of course she gets pregnant and Judah hears about it - apparently she has become so by playing the whore so Judah, the hypocrite one might say, orders her burnt.
She then produces the items of collateral for the sex transaction and all is magically forgiven. She has twins, the first one to begin to emerge was called Zarah (because they tied a scarlet ribbon around his hand thinking he was the first born, and Zarah means sunset, and scarlet is the colour of the sunset) but he went back in and Pharez (breach) was actually the first out.
Genesis 39: Meanwhile Joseph had managed to rise to a sort of seneschal or overseer rank in Egypt. His new master's wife came on to him, but Joseph refused her: she subsequently framed him for attempting to lie with her so Joseph was sent to prison. But God was looking out for him (!) so the jailor was a nice guy.
Genesis 40: So Pharaoh gets annoyed with his Butler and Baker and throws them into the same prison that Joseph was in. They have dreams but no interpreter. Joseph steps in, and stressing that God is the interpreter not Joseph, sets about interpreting them. Joseph asks them (or rather one of them, the butler) to tell the Pharoah when his dream prophecy comes true, but the butler didn't.
Genesis 41: At least not until Pharaoh has an uninterpretable dream, when suddenly the toadying sycophant 'remembers' Joseph and helpfully refers Pharaoh to him. Once again, Joseph stresses he isn't like the magicians and doesn't use special rites to interpret dreams - it is God that interprets them as He sees fit; he then prophesises seven prosperous years followed by seven years of famine. This impresses Pharoah and Joseph becomes a member of great power in his household.
Joseph has two kids, Manasseh (which means 'to forget' because he helped his father forget his toll) and Ephraim (meaning 'Double fruitfulness').
Then the famine struck, and Joseph had stored up lots of food and people began to solicit him for it. He opened up the storerooms, and even foriegners would come begging.
Genesis 42: Eventually, Joseph's brothers come to Egypt to get food from the governer, who is Joseph. Disguised he devises a test for the brothers, and asked that they bring Benjamin to him (Benjamin was back with his father). So off they went, but Israel was not happy to relinquish Benjamin.
Genesis 43: Israel is talked around, and sends the brothers back with Benjamin to get more corn. They are greeted warmly and have a meal together.
Genesis 44: Joseph frames Benjamin for theft, when they are brought before him he demands that the culprit be given over to him as a servant for recompense for the crime. Judah steps up and pleads with Joseph about how losing Benjamin would cause fatal grief to their father. Instead, suggests Judah, take me instead.
Genesis 45: Joseph, overwhelmed by Judah's change of character reveals himself and tells them not to feel bad for effectively selling him into slavery: It was all part of God's divine plan to help save lives in the upcoming famine. It was not the brothers that sent Joseph to Egypt, but God. So come and stay with me, says Joseph, for the famine is going to continue for another five years.
Genesis 46: The household moves to Egypt. God promises he will go with them, and come back with them...neglects to mention what will happen in the next book.
Genesis 47: They are received in Egpyt and allowed to stay in Goshen. The famine hits hard, land deals are made to buy food. Israel is ill and 147 years old, his dying request was to be buried with the other Patriarchs.
Genesis 48: Israel blesses Joseph's two sons, but breaches ettiquette by blessing the youngest with his right hand. Joseph is upset but Israel assures him that the younger will be the greater - hearkening back to the old Esau twin scenario.
Genesis 49: Israel is still dying, and he gives a prophecy about the fates of his 12 sons: the progenitors of the 12 tribes of Israel. He then curls up and gives up the ghost.
Genesis 50: Joseph buries his father as he requested, but Joseph's brothers are a little worried about their fate given their past crimes against him - Joseph reassures them:
But as for you, ye thought evil against me; [but] God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as [it is] this day, to save much people alive.
The book ends with Joseph on his deathbed, promising his brothers that God will visit them and then he died aged 110.
THE END


Phew, that's Genesis done and dusted. All 38,300 words (approx, KJV). Exodus next, which is just about as long - joy of joys. In Genesis, God appears to be experimenting with mankind, trying to work out a way of dealing with a creature of freewill. Eventually a mutual relationship of sorts is developed the neither being completely dominant of the other: both parties with some obligations and responsibilities to live up to.
God is often mysterious and acheives his ends in the most circumspect of ways. Setting up plans for the nation of Israel that first requires Abraham to leave Ur, engage in a whole adventure, for his son to likewise have adventures for his son to have adventures that take him to Egypt which is where Exodus picks up: the leaving of Egypt and the setlling of the Israelites.
Not only that but God likes to do things in a way that would be deliberately confusing to the readers/listeners and presumably the characters in the books - the younger son often assumes the position of his father rather than the eldest for example. Not a bad read in all, it's been many years since I properly read it and writing thoughts down about what was happening helped follow the overarching plotline: I'd never been able to get through the Patriarchs section before it just killed me: Having google handy to look up place names and the like has helped.

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Edited by Modulous, : changing 'blockquotes' into qs quotes.

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 Message 52 by Modulous, posted 02-28-2009 11:51 AM Modulous has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 52 of 117 (500628)
02-28-2009 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by Modulous
02-26-2009 6:59 PM


Exodus
Incidentally, though I am mostly reading KJV, I am periodically switching to other versions including the JPS, NIV, and whatever strikes my fancy.
skip to exodus 11
Exodus 1
And lo! The Israelites are multiplying down in Egypt, but a new 'king', not familiar with the great deeds of those Genesis dudes starts to get worried so he starts tapping into the Jews as a source of slave labour
Come on, let us deal wisely with them; lest they multiply, and it come to pass, that, when there falleth out any war, they join also unto our enemies, and fight against us, and [so] get them up out of the land.
Therefore they did set over them taskmasters to afflict them with their burdens. And they built for Pharaoh treasure cities, Pithom and Raamses. But the more they afflicted them, the more they multiplied and grew. And they were grieved because of the children of Israel.
Since that didn't stem the flow of Israelites, he starts to order the midwives to kill the Israelites sons. The midwives ignore them because they 'feared' God (awe, reverence, respect rather than terror).
Exodus 2
Fearing he will be killed, one woman places her baby in an ark (its the same word used for Noah's boat) and sends him down the river where he is ironically found by Pharoah's daughter who rescues him and decides to raise him, calling him Moses (the name meaning approximately 'saved (or drawn out) from the water').
As a grown man, the first thing the Bible records about Moses is that he killed an Egyptian for smiting a Hebrew meaning that Moses had to flee to Midian. Once there, he continues his 'aid the defenseless' schtick by helping some young women get water seemingly protected by some shephards.
Their father was well pleased with Moses so he gave Moses one of his own daughters who promptly bares Moses' son, Gershom because he was a Robert A. Heinlein fan as well as partial to a bit of Iron Maiden and other 80s 'rock' music.
Not content with the chapter moving fast enough, the King of Egypt dies and there is a great sighing in the land which causes God to do a double-take and remember that he made a promise to the ancestors of these people.
Exodus 3
Moses goes to Mount Sinai and a bush sets alight but doesn't burn and God speaks to Moses: Go to Pharaoh and ask for your people to be released. Moses is a little skeptical that he's the man for the job and asks: They bound to ask me your name, oh alleged God of my people. So what is it?
I AM THAT I AM, tell them I AM has sent you.
(Sometimes God likes to talk like Death).
Exodus 4
Moses continues: They won't believe me.
He casts down his rod which then turns into a snake. He picks it up and it becomes a rod again.
Awesome trick, God.
WAIT, says God. Now put your hand on your chest, withdraw it...hey look its leprous. Do it again. It's healed. How AWESOME am I? That'll convince them. Well, maybe not. Try the old, pouring water on the sand and it turns to blood trick - that one goes down a treat.
B-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-buh-buh-buh-buh-buuuuuuuuht G-g-g-God, I have a t-t-terrrrr-terrrr-terrible sta-sta-sta-sta-stammer.
Yes I know you moron, says God. I made your damned mouth. Don't worry about that. I'll just climb into your mouth and teach you what to say. Well, not literally - look your brother, Aaron, will do the talking, I'll do the words, and you, Moses...well...just go along with the plot will you and do the cool tricks. It'll be fine. Well, when I say fine, what I mean is that I will manipulate Pharoah's freewill so that he will ignore your pleas - so that I can smite his ass.
The proles were happy with the parlour tricks of Moses so they rejoiced.
Exodus 5
M: Let my people go!
P: No, get back to work you lazy buggers.
Moses to God: Why have you forsaken me? Things have gotten worse, not better!
Exodus 6
Shut up Moses. I am Yahweh, the God of Abraham; I was not known to Abraham as Yahweh - but as el; interesting point: Genesis does have humans worshipping Yahweh, which indicates that Genesis has seemingly been edited by the Yahwists to support their claims)
Gen 4:26 And to Seth, to him also a son hath been born, and he calleth his name Enos; then a beginning was made of preaching in the name of Jehovah.
Everything will be fine. Unfortuntely, the children of Israel were not easily reassured.
Y: Go to Pharaoh, tell him to let your people go.
M: Dude, if the Israelites won't listen, what chance has that uncircumcised bastard Pharaoh of listening to me?
Exodus 7
Y: No, even using your magic tricks and Aaron's persuasive tongue, you cannot get the Pharoah to listen - because I'm interfering in freewill again.
So off they go, and Moses does his rod/snake trick, but Pharoah has his magicians do likewise and smirks.
After making sure that the Pharaoh wouldn't be impressed, Yahweh tells Moses to GO TO Pharaoh and warn him they will turn the rivers to blood for his refusal. And so they warn Pharaoh and then perform the plague.
Then, somehow, Pharoah's magicians replicated the stunt (given that all the rivers were blood already - what rivers did they use?)
Exodus 8
Y: GO UNTO Pharaoh and tell him to let your people go, otherwise Frogs are going to plague the land.
And Frogs ended up plaguing the land.
And Pharaoh's magicians replicated the stunt.
This is a supernatural standoff. Israel's LORD GOD vs the Egyptian pantheon.
P: OK Moses, if your God can get rid of the frogs, I'll let your people go.
So God killed all the frogs, and they began to rot and stink, and Pharaoh's heart hardened again. (God's having too much fun to let the Pharoah get away with just two pieces of special effects).
Then, with no warning or threat, a third plague: Lice.
The Pharaoh's magicians shrugged and said, that's God's work, but Pharaoh didn't care (he couldn't, Yahweh made sure of it).
Y: Go to Pharaoh and tell him to let your people go, or there will be huge swarms of flies.
And so there were huge swarms of flies.
P: OK OK Moses, I'll let your people go if you just get rid of these damn flies.
M: Promise not to lie? OK then, done.
P: I'm not letting your people go.
Exodus 9
Y: Moses, go to Pharaoh and tell him to let your people go.
(This does sound like the build up to a long joke, or is it just me? ) Otherwise there will be a plague amongst your cattle.
All of Egypt's cattle died. Pharaoh did not let his people go.
Once again, the third punishment was without warning - boils and blains.
y: Moses, go to Pharaoh and tell him to let your people go. Otherwise there will be terrible hailstorm.
And there was hail (and in a Trogdoresque twist of special effects fanboydom, there was also fire!).
P: Moses, stop the hail and I will let your people go.
M: OK.
P: I'm not letting your people go.
Exodus 10
M: Let my people go, otherwise Locusts!
*Locusts*
P: Stop it.
M: OK.
P: I'm not letting you go.
Third time, no warning, but surprising three days of darkness.
P: I'm still not letting you go. Now sod off.

back to the top
skip to Exodus 22
Exodus 11
Don't worry Moses, says Yahweh, I'll do one more plague (and it's a good 'en I promise you). Tell everyone the plan: I'll kill all the firstborn, but I won't bother the Children of Israel.
Exodus 12
So awesome will it be, that you will call this month your first month - and this year your first year, says God.
**Incidentally, this is really the start of a flurry historicization of Israelite practices. This obviously roots the Jewish calendar at a meaningful historical singularity much like the Gregorian calendar rooted in a 'historical' story of the birth of the Christ.
He continues: Tell every household to get a lamb. Make sure it newly born. Keep it for five days. Kill it, smear its blood around the door and then eat it along with unleavened bread.
**Here are some spring-time rituals, sacrifices of the lamb for shepherd-types and for the agricultural types a sacrifice of the first crop, historicized and given a new meaning. Actually I thought I'd add here a note about Moses' name. In the Hebrew it has come to mean 'drawn from the water', but I'm not sure whether that was because of Moses or if it came before then. Either way, M^S^S is an Egyptian name too meaning 'son of'. Just about everyone has heard of Ramses, Son of Ra or perhaps Thutmose, son of Thoth.
The blood on the door thing is because I have spontaneously lost the ability to discriminate the children of Israel despite my having done so in some of the previous plagues. Then again, its likely that this is only the case because a whole bunch of stories have been mashed together to form a singular entity.
And so the first born died - including the firstborn cattle.
The Pharaoh finally relents to Moses' full demands for all his people and their livestock to get out. For good measure Yahweh 'leant on' the Egyptians so that they gave the Israelites lots of jewels of silver and gold.
600,000 men left Egypt, along with their massive array of cattle, women and children.
Yahweh to Moses and Aaron: Uncircumcised scum don't get to celebrate Passover. Uncircumcised scum don't get to celebrate Passover. (yes it's so important I'll basically say it twice)
And the LORD said unto Moses and Aaron, This [is] the ordinance of the passover: There shall no stranger eat thereof: But every man's servant that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof.
...
for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.
Exodus 13
So they set off, with Joseph's bones, avoiding the war-torn Palestine whilst Yahweh explained some more rituals surrounding the Passover celebrations. Instead of Palestine they went by the Yam Suf. The translation is controversial. Some say it is the Red Sea, and they point to other usages of Yam Suf in the Bible which do support the Red Sea hypothesis. Some say the Reed Sea and others say the Sea of Seaweed. Yam means 'sea'; Suf is sometimes translated as 'rushes' (Moses' basket was placed amongst the Suf).
And Yahweh was doing a good impression of a certain storm god, riding the clouds to guide the way.
Exodus 14
Yahweh was still content that the Egyptians thought he was awesome enough (he evidently has a low self-esteem), makes them pursue the children of Israel. The children of Israel are not impressed:
Because [there were] no graves in Egypt, hast thou taken us away to die in the wilderness? wherefore hast thou dealt thus with us, to carry us forth out of Egypt? ... For [it had been] better for us to serve the Egyptians, than that we should die in the wilderness.
Yahweh has Moses raise his magic rod and part the sea. Guarding him during this process was an angel in cloud form that gave them light throughout the night (and was a cloud of darkness to the Egyptians so they came no closer). God created an eastward wind that by the end of the night had divided the water related obstacle. The children of Israel walked across, with a wall of water to their left and their right.
In pursuit once more, the Egyptian host, on chariots (Said Pharoah to Benny: Bring me EVERYONE!!!).
The Egyptian chariots seemed to be having difficulty courtesy of God (though if this were a marshy environment rather than a full blown sea, the mud would probably do the job) and they decide to quit the chase. At which point God sends the wall of water crashing over them.
Exodus 15
Starts with a song. A poetic retelling of the Yam Suf affair. This seems to be akin to a battle at sea though,
Pharaoh's chariots and his host hath he cast into the sea: his chosen captains also are drowned in the Yam Suf.
The depths have covered them: they sank into the bottom as a stone.
Sank to the bottom? Sounds like a boat crossing which was disturbed by a storm as per the storm god Hadad Yahweh.
After that, the 'people' realize that they have no water and so the complaining starts again. And thus starts the 'Battlestar Galactica' part of Exodus. The twelve tribes of Israel, a rag tag group of people trudging through the wilderness, trying to survive and find a legendary land that has been promised to them in ancient scripture.
Exodus 16
They arrive at the wilderness of Sin (some controversy over where this is, but Sin probably refers to the early semitic Moon God who the Arabs called al-illah).
The people complain some more, no food! So Yahweh rained bread/manna down upon them. They became a communist based economy:
Gather of it every man according to his eating,
They tried stocking up on it, against Moses' instructions and in true pre-Pasteur spontaneous generation style the day-old food bred worms and began to smell.
The only time they were allowed to gather up more than they could eat was on the day before the Sabbath when they could gather twice as much so they wouldn't have to do any gathering on the Sabbath. The chapter ends oddly:
And the children of Israel did eat manna forty years, until they came to a land inhabited; they did eat manna, until they came unto the borders of the land of Canaan.
Now an omer [is] the tenth [part] of an ephah.
Exodus 17
The complaining begins again.
Wherefore [is] this [that] thou hast brought us up out of Egypt, to kill us and our children and our cattle with thirst?
Moses is scared that things will turn nasty, but Yahweh teaches another rod-trick to Moses, this time getting water out of stone.
Still there were other problems, nomads began to raid the children of Israel, the Amalek people. So they fought the Amalek and Moses got out his big rod and the Israelites prevailed.
And Joshua discomfited Amalek and his people with the edge of the sword.
Exodus 18
And Moses told his father in law all that the LORD had done unto Pharaoh and to the Egyptians for Israel's sake, [and] all the travail that had come upon them by the way, and [how] Yahweh delivered them....Jethro said...Now I know that Yahweh [is] greater than all gods
Jethro then chastizes Moses for being a micro-manager and advises that Moses needs laws and judges for the small things rather than being the gopher running for advice to God on all the little things:
Thou wilt surely wear away, both thou, and this people that [is] with thee: for this thing [is] too heavy for thee; thou art not able to perform it thyself alone.
Exodus 19
God sets up a gig on Mount Sinai. Nobody is allowed in until they hear the trumpets - on pain of death! Turns out, there was a pyrotechnic display and a fog machine and everything. Moses went up to the top and was told that the very top was only for the 1337 not the proles.
Exodus 20
"Thou Shalt"
  1. have no other gods before me.
  2. not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth:
  3. not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I Yahweh thy God [am] a jealous deity visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children
  4. not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain
  5. Remember the sabbath day
  6. Honour thy father and thy mother
  7. not murder
  8. not commit adultery
  9. not steal
  10. not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
  11. not covet thy neighbour's house...nor his ass, nor any thing that [is] thy neighbour's.
They aren't numbered in the text so I just plucked them at random. Turns out I picked 11. Some people have an additional "I am the Lord your God" as the first commandment, whereas most denominations consider this part of the preface. The Jews generally use the same last commandment as I did but they amalgamate my number 1, 2 and 3 together as the second (with I am Yahweh your God as number 1).
Most Christian denominations merge 2 and 3.
Orthodox Christianity has "I am the Lord your God" merged with my number 2 as the first commandment.
Catholics and Lutherans also have "I am the Lord your God" and they merge it with 2 and 3 for the first. They split my number 11 into two commandments.
Islam uses the same numbering as the Jews.
Exodus 21
How to sell people, including your own daughters, and how to punish and brand slaves (using this device), under what circumstances you are allowed to kill or beat your slaves.
And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he [is] his money.
Also, what to do if an Ox should kill someone and when the owner should be punished. Compensation costs for what must have been a common source of dispute: if someone digs a pit (and doesn't cover it) and livestock falls in, the digger compensates the owner and covers the pit. Also, if one Ox should hurt an Ox owned by someone else, there's details on how to deal with that too.

back to the exodus 11
skip to Exo 32
Exodus 22
Continues with more laws from God to Moses. It starts by telling us the price of stealing or killing livestock: "five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep.", goes on to justify shotgun weddings, 22:16: "And if a man entice a virgin that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely pay a dowry for her to be his wife. " and the infamous verse 22:18, that as a single verse has resulted in a great deal of innocent bloodshed.
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
But the Israelites should not be nasty to foreigners (for the Israelites were once strangers in Egypt). There is law against being a moneylending/usury (Israelites are not to charge interest against each other (though technically its OK to charge interest against Gentiles hence why Jews and moneylending became synonymous. Christians read this verse to instruct them to not charge interest to their own 'kind' as well so the Jews were the only people that would loan any money to them - then they had the gall to have a go at the Jews for Usury a few centuries later).
Exodus 23
The laws from God continue: Don't be a lying witness, avoid mob mentality, don't be mean to foreigners for you were foreigners in Egypt, keep the Sabbath, observe festivals, do commit genocide against the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusite (and I will even send Angel's to help in doing it) "thou shalt utterly overthrow them" (Ex 23:24)
And I will set thy bounds from the Red sea even unto the sea of the Philistines, and from the desert unto the river: for I will deliver the inhabitants of the land into your hand; and thou shalt drive them out before thee.
Exodus 24
So Moses tells the people what God just said " and all the people answered with one voice, and said 'So say we all'." (Ex 24:3, kind of). Then Moses built twelve pillars representing the twelve tribes and sealed the deal with sacrifices. Then Moses went to go see God, along with Aaron (Moses' non stuttering brother) and the two eldest sons of Aaron as well as seventy elders of Israel went to go see God, who was standing on a Sapphire pavement.
"Moses", says God, "I haven't finished with giving you laws. Come here and I will give you stone tablets.". Then Moses and Joshua set out but only Moses went up Mount Sinai telling the others not to follow.
To the Israelites the glory of the Lord looked like a consuming fire on top of the mountain.
And Moses went into a burning cloud for forty days/nights.
What's the obsession with mountains and religions anyway?
Exodus 25
"Moses,", says God "I want those that can to give me stuff. I want gold, silver and bronze; blue, purple and scarlet yarn and fine linen; goat hair; ram skins dyed red and hides of sea cows ; acacia wood; olive oil for the light; spices for the anointing oil and for the fragrant incense; and onyx stones and other gems to be mounted on the ephod (high priest's robes) and breastpiece."
I want a sanctuary matching these specifications as I lay them out exactly. I want chest made of acacia wood, overlayed with gold, in and out, with a gold molding around and about, I want it to have four gold rings fasten to its four feet (two on either side), then I want acacia wood poles with gold all around it. I want you to realize this dream, or I'm going to scream. Then put the Testimony I am going to give you in it. And don't let the Nazis have it or their faces will melt and that'll give a generation of eighties kids nightmares for years.
(There is a whole crap load more stuff God wants for his Holy Box of the covenant) "Three cups shaped like almond flowers with buds and blossoms are to be on one branch, three on the next branch, and the same for all six branches extending from the lampstand." etc etc etc...
Exodus 26
Now I want a tabernacle (a tent) made to certain very specific regulations. And then...Hang the curtain from the clasps and place the ark of the Testimony behind the curtain. The curtain will separate the Holy Place from the Most Holy Place."
Actually this "Most Holy Place" is better translated I think as "Holy of Holies", pages could be filled about the Jewish concept of sacredness (seperated or dedicated to God) versus profane (the mundane everyday things). Its quite interesting but moving on.
Exodus 27
Next, says God, build an altar in a very particular way.
Exodus 28
Nepotism time: Aaron and his sons Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar (so your brother and your nephews), are going to be priests and they get all those nice garments you asked the people to donate towards. Make some of the people make the speledid garments. Here are the highly particular specifications for the garments I want you close family to wear "Have them use gold, and blue, purple and scarlet yarn, and fine linen. Make the ephod of gold, and of blue, purple and scarlet yarn, and of finely twisted linen--the work of a skilled craftsman." And on and an about gold filligree settings, rows of ruby, topaz, sapphires, beryl, emeralds etc etc.
Ex 28:30 has an interesting line:
Also put the Urim and the Thummim in the breastpiece, so they may be over Aaron's heart whenever he enters the presence of the Lord. Thus Aaron will always bear the means of making decisions for the Israelites over his heart before the Lord.
The Urim and the Thummim (pron. Toomim) are thought to be some kind of Hebrew oracular device(s), presumably some kind of Cleromancy.
Exodus 29
God lays out the ritual of consecrating priests via sacrifice and anointment with oils. Ex 29:13-14
Then take all the fat around the inner parts, the covering of the liver, and both kidneys with the fat on them, and burn them on the altar.
But burn the bull's flesh and its hide and its offal outside the camp. It is a sin offering.
More details about the sacrifice follow:
For the generations to come this burnt offering is to be made regularly at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting before the Lord. There I will meet you and speak to you...Then I will dwell among the Israelites and be their God.They will know that I am the Lord their God, who brought them out of Egypt so that I might dwell among them. I am the Lord their God.
Exodus 30
More altar building specifications.
Then the Lord said to Moses: "When you take a census of the Israelites to count them, each one must pay the Lord a ransom for his life at the time he is counted. Then no plague will come on them when you number them...The rich are not to give more than a half shekel and the poor are not to give less when you make the offering to the Lord to atone for your lives.". He is such a greedy bastard.
Here is how to make Holy incense. If anybody makes this incense for their own enjoyment, they should be 'cut off' (a euphemism for...kill them. Yep, death penalty for illegal fragrance making.
Exodus 31
God's wishlist concludes. Oh, but Keep the Sabbath!
Anyone who desecrates it must be put to death; whoever does any work on that day must be cut off from his people.
For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.
And finally, God gives Moses two "tablets of stone inscribed by the finger of God."

back to the Exo 22
skip to the end
Exodus has been fun, though the last section was a little dull it detailed God's instructions after 'Israel' accepts the suzerain-vassal relationship with God. Moses is gone for over a month, and we pick things up now back at the bottom of Mount Sinai:
Exodus 32
The people: Hey Aaron, this guy Moses, what's up with that? He's been gone so long and we want gods to worship.
Aaron: Gimme your jewellery: I will make a Golden Calf.
This is thy god, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt
God: Holy Fuck! I just said...I mean....I was pretty clear....I...Moses, I'll do an Abraham on you and a Sodom on those bastards.
Moses: If I'm Abraham, allow me to argue. You went through a lot of effort to bring us out of Egypt only to kill us in the Mountains. The Egyptians would laugh at you.
God:...Good point.
Later that day. Moses is walking back to camp when he sees the Golden Calf for himself.
Moses: Holy Fuck! I just said...I mean....I was pretty clear *throws the tablets carved in God's own hand onto the ground, smashing them in a tantrum*
And he took the calf which they had made, and burnt it with fire, and ground it to powder, and strewed it upon the water, and made the children of Israel drink of it.
Moses: Aaron you dickhead. I turn my back for one minute... Right - who is on God's side? The Levites? Right Levites - go slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour. That'll make about 3,000 dead. When the Muslims do it in the future that'll be a terrible crime, but now its OK. Go!
(Levi had three sons: Gershon, Kohath, and Merari. Kohath begat Amram and Amram begat Aaron and Moses. The descendants of Levi were the Levites: clearly the Levites are being propagandised here as the steadfast protectors of the covenant.)
God: And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee *smites some more sinners*
Exodus 33
God:: You're all mean and you worshipped that bull. You 'stiff-necked' bastards. Fine. Go to the land of milk and honey. I'm staying here.
Moses: Oh! Please?
God: Fine. Whatever.
Exodue 34
Since you broke the last load of tablets, I'll make some more, says God. I am merciful. But I am just. So while I may forgive transgressions, I will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and unto the fourth generation.
Moses: We are stubborn, God, forgive us.
I will forge a new covenant. And we'll still get those Amorites, the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Per'izzites, the Hivites, and the Jeb'usites and you'll destroy their idols and places of worship coz I is Jealous, innit? And....*more covenant details about keeping the Sabbath and keeping festivals, not keeping molten idols, etc *
Then Moses goes back to the people and his face is shining/glowing and everyone is scared so he wears a veil.
Exodus 35
Moses tells the people everything, the tabernacle, the boxes, the clothes, the sabbath all that jazz.
Exodus 36
They make the stuff God told them to make, to spec. The guy that makes the Tabernacle (the foreman anyway)...his name translates to "Father's tent"
Exodus 37
Still making the stuff.
Exodus 38
Making things still. It is basically a repeat of all the specifications given in the original covenant only everything prefixed with 'he made....'
He made the altar of burnt offering also of acacia wood; five cubits was its length, and five cubits its breadth; it was square, and three cubits was its height.
He made horns for it on its four corners; its horns were of one piece with it, and he overlaid it with bronze.
And he made all the utensils of the altar, the pots, the shovels, the basins, the forks, and the firepans: all its utensils he made of bronze.
Exodus 39
They make more stuff.... And Moses saw all the work, and behold, they had done it; as the LORD had commanded, so had they done it. And Moses blessed them.
Exodus 40
Every month, here is a list of instructions on how to do the service, said God.
Thus did Moses; according to all that the LORD commanded him, so he did.
Then the rest of the chapter is Moses doing the things God listed.
And he erected the court round the tabernacle and the altar, and set up the screen of the gate of the court. So Moses finished the work.
Then the cloud covered the tent of meeting, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.
And Moses was not able to enter the tent of meeting, because the cloud abode upon it, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.
Throughout all their journeys, whenever the cloud was taken up from over the tabernacle, the people of Israel would go onward;
but if the cloud was not taken up, then they did not go onward till the day that it was taken up.
For throughout all their journeys the cloud of the LORD was upon the tabernacle by day, and fire was in it by night, in the sight of all the house of Israel.

And here ends the book of Exodus. With these two books read I'm about 10% of the way through the OT and about 8% of the way through the whole thing.

back to the Exo 32

This message is a reply to:
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John 10:10
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Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 53 of 117 (505498)
04-12-2009 9:48 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Modulous
02-28-2009 11:51 AM


Let's skip to Proverbs 1:
26 I will also laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your dread comes,
27 When your dread comes like a storm and your calamity comes like a whirlwind, when distress and anguish come upon you.
28 "Then they will call on me, but I will not answer; they will seek Me diligently but they will not find Me,
29 Because they hated knowledge and did not choose the fear of the LORD.
30 "They would not accept My counsel, they spurned all my reproof.
31 "So they shall eat of the fruit of their own way and be satiated with their own devices.
32 "For the waywardness of the naive will kill them, and the complacency of fools will destroy them.
33 "But he who listens to Me shall live securely and will be at ease from the dread of evil."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Modulous, posted 02-28-2009 11:51 AM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Coragyps, posted 04-12-2009 10:50 PM John 10:10 has replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 54 of 117 (505504)
04-12-2009 10:50 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by John 10:10
04-12-2009 9:48 PM


Re: Let's skip to Proverbs 1:
You crack me up, John.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by John 10:10, posted 04-12-2009 9:48 PM John 10:10 has replied

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John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2996 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 55 of 117 (505964)
04-20-2009 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Coragyps
04-12-2009 10:50 PM


Re: Let's skip to Proverbs 1:
I must have cracked up Modulous as well. It seems he has paused mocking the God of the Bible for a while.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Coragyps, posted 04-12-2009 10:50 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 56 of 117 (506007)
04-21-2009 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Modulous
02-28-2009 11:51 AM


Nice
Just wanted to say I found this very educational (seriously) and, of course, entertaining as well.

This message is a reply to:
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jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 57 of 117 (508499)
05-14-2009 10:59 AM


Modulous,
You have a self defeating way of turning some readers off from carefully considering what you write. Here's one of the rules stated by the Forum Administrators. Rule # Ten of Forum Rules Reads:
Keep discussion civil and avoid inflammatory behavior that might distract attention from the topic. Argue the position, not the person.
Usually, in a well-conducted debate, speakers are either emotionally uncommitted or can preserve sufficient detachment to maintain a coolly academic approach.
-- Encylopedia Brittanica, on debate
Stuff like you write below, should be discouraged:
"God, the sadistic motherfucker, sees that Leah is disliked by Jacob ..."
If you're one of the head haunchos around this Forum you might consider setting a better example. Are you sometimes a Moderator yourself or something ?
Maybe your goal is not to educate or enlighten but just offend and insult some people. Anyway, I think you should speak here in public print as you would at home around your family. (I think).
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Taz, posted 05-14-2009 12:52 PM jaywill has replied
 Message 59 by Theodoric, posted 05-14-2009 4:20 PM jaywill has not replied
 Message 60 by Rahvin, posted 05-14-2009 6:57 PM jaywill has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 58 of 117 (508512)
05-14-2009 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by jaywill
05-14-2009 10:59 AM


Let's look at rule 10 again.
quote:
Keep discussion civil and avoid inflammatory behavior that might distract attention from the topic. Argue the position, not the person.
Usually, in a well-conducted debate, speakers are either emotionally uncommitted or can preserve sufficient detachment to maintain a coolly academic approach.
-- Encylopedia Brittanica, on debate
He wasn't discussing or debating. He was telling a story. What he offended was the position, not anybody... alive anyway. That rule doesn't apply. Try again.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by jaywill, posted 05-14-2009 10:59 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by jaywill, posted 05-15-2009 11:46 AM Taz has replied
 Message 63 by jaywill, posted 05-15-2009 11:56 AM Taz has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 59 of 117 (508529)
05-14-2009 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by jaywill
05-14-2009 10:59 AM


For a lot of people that is normal everyday language. I think we can safely assume that the vast majority of participants here are adults. Adults talk this way.
For a lot of people it is just salty language. Also, this language does not fall at all under the rule you cite. Your sensibilities are offended. Oh well. It happens to lots of people everyday. People could just as offended by your holier than thou attitude, but that isn't against forum rules either.
quote:
Anyway, I think you should speak here in public print as you would at home around your family. (I think).
Fine for you to think this way, but I, for one, have no desire to have you be the moral arbiter
Just my thoughts on the matter.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 60 of 117 (508545)
05-14-2009 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by jaywill
05-14-2009 10:59 AM


Anyway, I think you should speak here in public print as you would at home around your family. (I think).
Mod's post was rather tame compared to how I speak at home regarding the same topic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by jaywill, posted 05-14-2009 10:59 AM jaywill has not replied

  
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