Jesus was a Liberal Hippie

I did quote scripture which you ignored.I cited John 3:1 which directly says Nicodemus was a ruler of the Jews, John 9 makes Nicodemus a member of the Sanhedrin and a bible study includes resources outside the bible to understand it better such as Jewish history.You're not thinking outside the box you are aruing non-sequiter assertions such as the born again can mean returning to a non-rich state which the rest of the passage contradicts. Read the entire John 3 passage which I quoted the end of..."being born of the spirit". It is self-defining as spiritual regeneration. I suggest you actually read the passage instead of arguing anything you can think of. Earthly things spoken of in other passages have no pertinence here. You're just being silly and annoying which is probably on purpose because your arguments make no sense. Going to bed. Maybe we'll go on another day.Good nite and God Bless and I suggest you read my signature bible quote, it applies to you.

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"...but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables"

Fact is, Jesus didn't tell Nicodemus to sell his worldly goods, but He did tell the rich man to sell his worldly goods. You still haven't answered why Jesus would make that specific stipulation if it wasn't significant. Until you can do so, you haven't begun to discuss Jesus' position on worldly possessions. I'll be here. I suggest you give a reference so people can read it in context.

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The facts are we have two examples of rich men in scripture who both asked how to be saved. One was told to sell all he had and follow Jesus and the other was told to be born again. If it were formulaic for the rich to divest themselves of their wealth Nicodemus would have been instructed to do so but he wasnt so it isnt formulaic. I have repeatedly explained the difference, the young rich man's wealth was a source of sin for him and Nicodemus' wealth was not. Making wealth not inherently sinful.

I have never said that it was.The rich man's problem was refusing to share his wealth with the poor. You're reading that into the text.Jesus said to the rich man:

1. Sell what you have and give to the poor.
2. Follow me.

He said to Nicodemus:

1. Ye must be born again.

By your logic, neither following nor being born again were "formulaic" either.But "formulaic" is a red herring anyway.Forget about the secret formula for salvation. Jesus told the rich man to sell everything he had and give to the poor. How is that not a socialist policy?

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Socialism is when the state has control of private property. Nowhere is the govt involved in this example. When a private individual gives what they have to the poor that is not socialism. Nowhere did Jesus advocate that the state have control of private property. And the example with Nidodemus was formulaic, everyone must be born again to enter heaven as copious other versus attest. The problem is you take one example such as the rich young man who was told to sell his posessions and make it apply to everyone when there are no other passages in the bible to back you up.Thus, you make a hasty generalization claiming the passage in John 3 is a representative example of Jesus being a liberal hippie advocating socialism. When in fact Matthew 25, a parable by Jesus of the talents, refutes socialism.The quote for my signature is II Timothy 3.

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"...but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables"

May I remind you that this thread is "Jesus was a Liberal Hippie". It most definitely is not "Jesus was a socialist hippie". "Liberal" and "socialist" are not the same thing.

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Jesus was not a liberal hippie but a neo-con.

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Jesus was corrupt, power-hungry, warmongering, influence-peddling, authoritarian, constitution-ignoring, and individual rights-eroding? Edited by schrafinator, : added my sig!

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"Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends! Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!"
- Ned Flanders"Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." - Thomas Jefferson

His polemic was also a bit more subtle than the usual neo-con fare.

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"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." -- George Bernard Shaw

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Socialism is when the state has control of private property.

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So China is not a socialism country then (by that standard), right?

That's your (incorrect, biased) idea of socialism. When I say "socialism", I mean putting the good of society foremost, sometimes at the expense of the individual.As nwr has pointed out, the topic is "liberalism", not "socialism". My view of socialism seems to be more a propos to the topic than yours, but to be fair I suggest we drop the use of the term. Jesus told the rich man to give his riches to the poor. That's "liberalism" at the very least. So you say, but until you actually post those "copious other versus", your word will not be taken as gospel. If it's a "hasty generalization", then don't be so hasty in handwaving it away. Then explain, don't just assert. Hardly anybody here is going to read Matthew 25 and then read your mind to try to figure out what you mean. Either explain yourself or save the wear and tear on your keyboard.And make that "liberalism", not "socialism". I know that. I'm suggesting that you put the reference in your signature, for the benefit of those who don't carry their Bible-search utility in a quick-draw holster.

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Let's see: Well, that does pretty much sound like capitalism to me!

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"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." -- George Bernard Shaw

You should put in a smilie (with a quote-miner's helmet). A little farther down in the same chapter (ironically):

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Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was hungry, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

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I love how the dogmatists always ignore that section.

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For NWR Ringo and others Read my orignal Post #77:1) The original post suggesting the render under caesar quote means Jesus was in favor of universal healthcare. Just because a couple of you decide that liberalism and socialism are not the same thing doesnt mean I shouldnt clarify other posts that Jesus was a socialist.2) Jesus was the 'neo-con' OF HIS DAY as I stated in a previous post correcting the corrupt teachings of the Pharisees and Sadducees and teaching the people the original intent of the old testament. I shortened it and left out of his day in a repetitious summary to Ringo.3) Words have meaning and socialism is a political term with and established definition where private property is outlawed or reduced and the state owns the means of production there is a state controlled central/national bank etc...from Chapt 2 of the Communist Manifesto. Helping your fellow man is not 'socialism' as you try to redefine it Ringo; in fact socialism reduces the standard of living for everyone to the lowest common denominator hurting more people relatively than capitalism with corruption.4) This is under the Bible Study forum so yes I expect people to read Matthew 25 for themselves Ringo.5) Liberalism and Socialism are for practical conversations like this thread synonomous as in the orignal post; there are slight differences but significant overlap. If one is to be technical socialism is a subset of Liberalism.6) This all arose because the strip quotes of render unto caesar and John 3 Jesus telling the rich man to sell all he had and give to the poor made jesus a socialist and/or liberal but the quotes do not support that.7) so the conclusion is that Jesus was not a liberal hippie advocating dissolution of wealth but a neo-con of his day correcting the misunderstandings and returning the understanding of the people to the original status quo and conservation of the original status quo is the root of the political term 'conservative'.Blast away I can take it!And hey how you you guys isolate a line from a post to respond and get the smiles to work?

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"...but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables"

when you reply to a post, on the left you will see help material for both dBCodes and HTML that will show you how we format things like quote boxes.In addition, at the end of this message you will see a link to a thread on formatting.Hope this helps

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Sorry, that ain't the way it works. If you want to make a point, you have to make it. For your own sake, if you wants to get your point across, you gots to put it across.Still waiting for an answer: Why did Jesus stipulate to the rich man that he sell what he had and give to the poor?

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