The new teachings of Jesus

the problem of course, is then why would god let some other company publish some other version of the bible with a different selection of books? more than one version and more than one translation exist -- further, whole other books that claim to be holy exist: the qu'ran, the book of mormon, etc. why would god let those exist if they were not also true?it's quite a naive viewpoint to assume that "god didn't stop me, therefor it must be approved by god." even assuming that god exists, AND the bible is true, people do lots of things in the bible that are not sanctioned by god, and even punished by god. we have this thing called "free will." our will is not neccessarily god's will. i am too. i have a feeling you know where this is going...Edited by AdminJar, : No reason given.

---

seven.Orthodox people I've met can't seem to tell me what's in their Bible, and I know they tend to include 3 & 4 Maccabbees, which the Roman Catholics don't, as well as 2 Esdras (or 2 Ezra, which is a pretty cool book), so maybe the Orthodox have a dozen extra.

Eastern Orthodox canon includes all of the Macabees and also 1 Esdras and probably more if I remember correctly, so you're looking at 4 books (minimum) on top of the Catholic Bible and a dozen (or more) on top of the Protestant one.Also, I remember hearing that the Russian Orthodox church list some other writings as 3 Esdras (or something similar), so their canon is even wider.So many divinely-inspired Bibles, which one to choose....?

---

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

nice link.I found this one to be just amazing, and was not aware of it:” Matthew 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
” Error: The NIV omits For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.I mean, many songs have been written with that line in it, what were they thinking?

So then can you perhaps see why I may have some objections to the idea that the Bible has been preserved throughout time?

---

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

Absolutely, and it is the same reason I am not a literalist.I wondered why God would allow so many translations. I prayed about it. What I thought was an answer was that the translation of the words that the original was written in, can have several meanings. Maybe all those meanings are needed, since there are so many different people.

Or maybe God didn't want it turned into the idol that many have made it to be. It always amazes me how many people will defend its verbal and scientific inerrancy, but who don't read it and who don't have a clue what it's talking about."As many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God" (Rom 8:14). "You search the Scriptures, because you think that in them you have life. But these are they which testify of me, and you refuse to come to me so that you might have life" (Jn 5:39).I believe God wants people to put their trust in him, not in the Scriptures. Yes, the Scriptures are a guide, but the reason that the focus of the New Testament is that God would give his Spirit to everyone (cf. Acts 2:17) is because the idea is that everyone could enter into fellowship with God. "Behold, the days come, says the Lord, that I will make a new covenant...not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers...and they shall no longer teach their neighbor, 'Know the Lord,' because they shall all know him, from the least of them to the greatest of them" (Jer 31:31,32,34).Nowadays, Christians are taught not to trust their knowledge of God. If you tell them you are trying to live by the Spirit of God, they will tell you that's dangerous. You should try to live by the Bible. From my experience in mainline Christianity that covered 13 years, I can tell you that those who try to live by the Bible generally fail and spend much of their time arguing over their thousands of conflicting interpretations of the Bible. From my experience at Rose Creek Village over the last 11 years, I can tell you that when a people tries together to follow God, they end up living by the Bible.So, in conclusion, I think God meant for the Bible not to be a magic book, and he had no intentions ever of giving it supernatural inerrancy. I believe he did help preserve it, and he made it so at least some writings would be preserved extant for our benefit, but it's not his will at all for it to be at the head. He wants to be at the head.

If the Bible causes you to love Christ more, to depend upon and live unto Christ more, don't worry about it. It is safe. It is adaquate for you. God will cover the rest.If it distracts you from Christ rather than attracts you to Christ, then you can pray to ask God to lead you to a better Bible.Whatever Bible brings you deeper into Jesus is Okay. God will cover the rest. Don't worry about it.Just be sure that when you come to the Bible, any Bible, at the same time you are coming to God in your heart. Even if you have the genuine autograph of the Bible and you come with your heart closed to God it will do you no good.Some people come to the Bible blind. And when they go away from it they are more blind. Their problem is not with the Bible translation. It is with the closedness of thier heart and the unwillingness to be touched within by the Holy Spirit.Don't be like that.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

If it is the Word of God then it has a significance beyond anything else (see clarification at the end of this post). One doesn't "idolize" it per se (ie: bow down to the book every morning). But if an experience or an insight or a notion is not confirmed by the Word as being of God then which other court of appeal would you refer that experience/insight/notion to? Are we not told not to rely on own understanding? Does not satan masquerade as and angel of light? If we cannot confirm it in the Word then it can only be own understanding we are relying upon - or at least we cannot know it is anything but own understanding on which we are reliant - which leaves us in a vacuum. Are you saying everyone: Christian or no is given Gods spirit? When you are told "rely not on your own understanding" what do you take this to mean? This is an apparent chicken and egg situation. From whence does a person figure out that they are following God if it is not the Bible which tells them they are following God. Bible first - the rest follows it seems to me.Which interpretation of the Bible exists at Rose Creek? An interpretation of some sort I imagine. At least, if one finds one living according to the Bible then one has an interpretation of it against which to judge ones living (according to it).Its easy enough for a small group of people to find accord in the interpretation your village presumably holds. As in mainstream Christianity, many in your village won't be all that concerned with the interpretation - they have other things to be doing.But as soon as you engage with something outside your village you enter the exact same zone that the rest of us enter as soon as we step outside our own Christian villages (my own Christian village is smaller than yours and we don't get into argy bargy about intepretation either - even though we live in houses spread out amongst the community). You engage here with others who hold a different view to you. You are no different than mainstream Christianity whenever it is you log on here. As I do whenever I log on here. I mean no disrespect but I see only quagmire here. How does one decide which parts have been preserved if not through own understanding and interpretation? Something we are told not to do..If he created everything there is with his word and if his word became flesh in Christ then his word is hardly insignificant. Nothing about him is less than anything else. His word is as much him as is anything else. To place his word on high (by way of trusting, obeying it) is to place him on high. How do you go grading aspects of God into 1st, 2nd, 3rd classes? To not "idolise" his world is to not idolise him. He spoke it: what is there NOT to idolize about it?Edited by iano, : No reason given.

The Word doesn't mean the Bible to me, but I assume you are talking about the Bible here.The other court of appeal that the Scriptures give is the church, which is the pillar and support of the truth. No. You have to listen to God and others around you. Unless you are exhorted/encouraged daily, the Scriptures say, you are in danger of being deceived by sin and hardened. One rarely faces such a decision. Is Mark 16:8-20 from the original? Is 1 Jn 5:7 part of the original? We don't know, and I can't see that it matters much, if at all. How would your life or anyone else's be different if we stripped Mark 16:8-20 from the Bible?Where did the seven chapter difference between the LXX and Masoretic texts of Jeremiah come from? We don't know, and the Dead Sea Scrolls agree with the LXX text. I'm sure you don't know which 7 chapters are different, and I'm also sure that no one's life or Christianity would change if we suddenly inserted the LXX text of Jeremiah into our Bibles (which is what all the early Christians would have read, by the way).

This is one of the very notions I was referring to. "The scriptures give". You derive the church as a court of appeal from scriptures.Now which church? You have made plain elsewhere that you have little time for much of the mainstream Christian church. Indeed it seems dissatisfaction with that was a motivation for the establishing of your village. Presumably you derive the model for the more correct church from scripture.In listening to what others in the church you are a part of say surely you measure what they say against scripture - for the church is not inerrant. Scripture is at the base of it all is it not?And if you are listening to God the only way to ensure you are hearing from the spirit of God and not some other spirit is to "test the spirits" that it conforms to what the Bible says. Where would one test them if not against scripture?Everything for you derives ultimately from scripture - when you distill it down. I'm not saying the Bible should be idolised - this is all about relationship with God. But without that standard (not guide) to measure all against, do you not float on a sea of potential error? How would you know you are not?Is that not the very same error that Christians who flock to hear Kenneth Copeland, Ken Hagin and Benny Hinn and watch TBN (senior members of the cult of "Word of Faith")? Failing to measure what these men say against scripture?Edited by iano, : No reason given.Edited by iano, : No reason given.

No, that's not the problem at all. Almost everyone in that movement checks the Scriptures to verify what these men say, and those men use the Scriptures to do their teaching.

I've heard Benny Hinn say that the spirit told him that Fidel Castro would die in the 90's. I have also heard him say that God told him that the homosexual community in the US would be destroyed in the mid-90's - not later than 1995. Not just any old destruction but "by fire" (this was greeted with much applause). Neither of these events have happenedIf any Christian were to check with scripture they would find it details on how they can discern false prophets (ie: the prophesy doesn't come true)Sure they use scripture in their teaching. The best lies are the ones that stay closest to the truth. They also teach that Adam was God in the same way that Jesus is God. They teach that Adam could fly and that he flew into space. They teach that God lives on a planet like earth. They teach transubstantiation. They teach a whole lot of stuff that is not in scripture.But it gets away from the point. Your church is like any church. You rely on an intepretation of the Bible as base for everything else. Which is why your village is just one more of the 20,000 or so protestant denominations. Maybe nearer the truth maybe further away from the truth. But sailing in the same boat as us all. And in the measure one strays from scripture (as per Word of Faith) the more one is lost at sea for want of any moorings. There is no other mooring than scripture.Edited by iano, : No reason given.

Right, by fruit, which is the real judge of teaching, not comparing it to your almost certainly faulty interpretation of Scripture.Same with churches. You are quite welcome to write us off as just one of 20,000 protestant denominations. You're satisfied (somehow) with the results protestants get. I'm not. In the US, homeless people get better love and fellowship among their drug and drink addicted street friends than Christians get at church. I, with others, chose a different path, not based on Scripture interpreting and trying to follow Scripture, but on actually following his Spirit, together. As a result, we live as family and are able to help others experience the love and family that the Gospel is supposed to produce. It's deliriously satisfying.

There you go again: an interpretation of scripture is the cornerstone of your faith. No harm in that but it seems that in setting up an apart community which is in-focused you miss out on the scripture which encourages Christians to be salt and light to the world.No doubt you can interact with the surrounding community in some ways. But by cloistering yourselves you are, it seems to me, hiding your light somewhat under a bushel. Denominations that are more outwardly focused, whose individuals live in the community have an opportunity to do that which you cannot.I'm not writing you off but what you gain in one area you loose in another and writing off all the rest of Christianity (when your experience of all the rest of Christianity is so necessarily limited) strikes me as going a tad too far.There is the danger of people being so heavenly minded that they are no earthly good. A balance needs to be struck and avoiding a 'holy huddle' is not assisted (in my mind) by circling the wagons against the influences of the world.